What really ruined sonic games

[Ivogoji]

^I'm looking for a massive, hateful backlash some where in the Mario fandom on par with the Sonic fandom's reaction to Sonic Next Gen. There is none. To wit, Super Mario Galaxy 2 is one of the most positively received video games in history. Your minor criticism doesn't stack up to mountains of praise that single game has garnered, nor does it compare with the heaps of criticism the Sonic franchise takes from its own fans. Not even close.

[Marine_Chaos_Chao]

I don't Hate the game. I love it. But I still don't understand the story line to it.

[GSfan497]

In my opinion, what I think happened is simply this: The fan base and (probably) Sony/microsoft themselves.

Sonic 2006 was going to be "the best sonic game ever made", as sega mentioned at E3 2005/06.

However, because of deadlines that needed to be met, the game was rushed.

So what I THINK happened was sony and microsoft wanted the game to be out by christmas of 2006.

But before that all happened, sega's fanbase kept arguing back and forth that the game should be released before 2007 (the original launch year).

This is what I think what went on 6 to 7 years ago.

At least sonic got back on track with sonic 4 and sonic generations.


<------ gligar13vids (youtube sonic fanboy/troll)

[Kyo]

...I still find them fun.

[Jack Augustine]

Well, having to collect the Chaos Emeralds is the best part, but I love SA2B......

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

The only problem I see with the fanbase is that it is divided into several major camps that desire vastly different things from a Sonic game.

You have the classic Camp, who want simple storylines, a handful of playble characters with unique abilities, and most importantly, high-speed, momentum-based platforming that encouarges exploration.
You have the Adventure Camp, who want an interconnected plot with multiple characters, a handful of playable chacters with unique abilities, Chao Gardens, and a handful of completely unique playstyles.
You have the youngster camp, who do not care what the game is like as long as Sonic's face is on the cover.
This list is by no means complete.

From what I have seen, Both the Classic and Adventure Camps think Unleashed and Generations are steps in the right direction, but are disappointed by Sonic being the only playable Character, not that anyone wants to be forced to play through with extra characters that are essentially Sonic Clones.

From a developer standpoint, common problems include:
Releasing new games in quick succession.
Discarding, rather than building upon, the work of previous games.
Rushing games to market instead of applying the proper polish.
Shoehorning new characters in nearly every game instead of making good use of the existing cast.

[Jack Augustine]

I'm not in any of those Camps. I love the old Platforming, but I also LOVE the new Sonic too.

[Ivogoji]

From my experience, the major groups fans consist of are best defined by where they feel 'Sonic was ruined after X point'.

One of the smallest but most vocal (at least back when I first got into the online Sonic fandom) of these camps are those that believe the series was ruined after Sonic 2. They want every game to be identical to the first one and tend to hate every character in the series besides Sonic and "Robotnik"- that is, not the bad guy SEGA puts into its games but the villain they conjured from their own imaginations after watching his counterparts in other media then picking and choosing the qualities they liked while ignoring the original. Their call for Sonic to be the only playable character was heard in recent games, with mixed results.

Further along is I guess a younger camp, those that feel the series was ruined after the Genesis era ended, many siting the lack of an impressive Saturn release (or Sonic X-treme's cancellation) as causing them to lose interest in the franchise. They are okay with having playable characters besides Sonic, but tend to hate the new characters or feel the series has too many. They have similar delusions about Dr. Robotnik as the older camp and tend to favor depictions of him from outside the games. Generally they dislike 3D games, wanting the series to return to its roots, or for 3D games to be more like the Genesis titles.

Within these two groups are fans who in particular prefer the SatAM or AoStH cartoons over the games, even the early instalments. To them the animated or comic book incarnations of Sonic are the "real" ones, and by following its own storyline the games have somehow departed from the original continuity. Their views on Dr. Robotnik are the most annoying, as they insist the particular incarnation they love is the only true Robotnik, and that Dr. Eggman didn't exist until the Adventure era. Likewise they deride nearly everything introduced in the games that doesn't mesh with their own version of the series.

Then there are the fans that think the series was ruined when the Adventure games came out. Again this camp hates every character introduced from that point onwards, and hate Shadow most of all. They are particularly disgusted with the ambitious storylines Sonic games took up in the Adventure era, wishing they were simpler like those of Genesis and Saturn titles. This camp also hates the gameplay of the 3D instalments, either because of the differences with 2D games or because individual characters were given their own style of gameplay, or both. Oddly this group also objects to Tails' character development in the Adventure era, especially his becoming a mechanical genius, even though that had more or less been his personality all along. Many of them are not fond of Chao. Naturally, they are a rare sight around here.

Taking a totally different view however is the camp that pegs Sonic Heroes as the downfall of the series. Typically they loved the Adventure games and wished every instalment in the series were like those two. Some felt Sonic died with the Dreamcast and couldn't accept the idea of Sonic games on Nintendo consoles. They hated Sonic Heroes' gameplay and use of classic elements (upbeat tone, simple storyline, special stages, the Chaotix, Metal Sonic). They also objected to the lack Chao in games following the Adventure duology, wanted more character-specific gameplay, and opposed the lighter tone of Heroes. Some of their complaints were answered in Shadow the Hedgehog, which had a darker tone and expanded heavily on the storyline of Sonic Adventure 2, seemingly giving this camp what it wanted. Their response wasn't very warm however. This group was extremely vocal back when I first got into the fandom, but they've started to quiet down these days, though lots of people still want to see a return to Adventure-style games.

At that point the base got EXTREMELY broken. Issues that divided fans from the Adventure era onward include differing opinions on voice acting, whether or not Shadow should have stayed dead, if Sonic should be the only playable character, the question of whether Sonic X is canon or not (it isn't, but that didn't stop fans from debating about it), if the series should keep introducing new characters, and different attitudes towards the spin-off games. While the above listed camps still persist, modern fans tend to be less concerned with where the series went wrong than where it went right. Some feel the Sonic Rush games were the best path to go. Others felt Sonic was dead before Sonic Colors was released. Still others feel it was Sonic Generations that redeemed the franchise.

[Rhys Coker (SB)]

I'm agreeing with Ivo.

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

I really do not fit into any particular camp(and honestly, any such scheme is going to be imperfect, though IVo probably did a better job of identifying the main groups than I did), but in my Opinion:

Classic Era(Console Generation 4):
The Genesis Trilogy was overall good, with each installment better than the last.
I would rank Sonic CD between 1 and 2 of the Genesis Trilogy.
3D Blast was an interesting game, but did not feel like a sonic game.
Spinball(16-bit) was Awesome, and remains my favorite spin-off to this day, thought the 8-bit version was lacking.
Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine was a cheap reskin.
Chaotix was an Interest concept, but Charmy's infinite omni-directional flight made it far to easy. Should probably replay it with a different main character.
The Gamegear Tetrology(Sonic 1&2 + Sonic and Tails 1&2) were good games, but felt inferior to the Genesis Trilogy.
G Sonic/Sonic Blast was possibly the worse platformer of the classic era.
I did not care for Sonic Drift 1&2 or Labyrinth(though I might enjoy Labyrinth more if I return to it without thinking of it as a Sonic game).
Tails' Sky Patrol is fun, but Nintendo Hard.
Tails' Adventures was Awesome. I want a tails solo game that combines Tails' Adventures gameplay with Aerial missions and the shooting levels from SA2B.
SegaSonic Arcade, I have not solid opinion of.

Intermission Era(Console Generation 5):
The Saturn never got a proper Sonic game, no one can deny this.
Sonic R(or at least the PC version) was fun, but seriously lacking in polish and far too short.
Sonic the Fighters is a fun game, to bad it never got a home release when it was new.

Early Modern Era(Console Generation 6):
Never played Shuffle, but it is on my to play list if I ever get hold of a handheld Dreamcast Emulator.
SADX was an awesome game in its own right, though Big and Amy's gameplay left much to be desired, and it was severely lacking in polish.
SA2B is my favorite 3D Sonic as it took the best parts of SADX and did them one better. I do miss the Adventure fields though.
Heroes was an interesting Concept, but needed some fine tuning and level design that better utilized the team mechanics and each team played too much like reskins of each other.
Never played Shadow, though I hate what they did with Shadow plot-wise. Want to, just for completion's sake.
Sonic Advance 1 was meh.
Sonic Advance 2 is my favorite handheld Sonic.
Sonic Advance 3 was more interesting, but overall less fun than SAdv 2.
Sonic Battle was Awesome, and has the best story telling in the whole series.

Modern Era(Console Generation 7):
The Rush Trilogy(Counting the DS version of Colors due to stylistic similarities) are a solid improvement over the Advance Trilogy, though I do miss being able to play as Tails, Knuckles, and Cream(Never really got attached to Amy).
Sonic Rivals 2 was a Fun Game, though the characters are a bit too similiar.
I have yet to play any of the Console Sonics from this Era, though it is less a lost of interest in Sonic, and more a lost of interest in Console gaming in general.

As for non-Games
I like all of the animated Series to various extents, as well as the Archie Comic, though like any rational fan, I understand that they are all their own universes with no direct interaction between them.
I also fell into the trap as a child of thinking the cartoons represented the true backstory of the games, but quickly accepted the truth when Sega decided to "retcon" the English games to match their Japanese versions.

As for Characters:
I hated that they introduced so many new/lesser known Characters in Chaotix and Fighters and then just forgot about most of them.
Big was a decent addition for comic relief given the more serious tone of the Adventure Duology.
Shadow and Rogue were decent additions, though I hate what they did with Shadow story-wise post SA2B(but loved him in Battle).
Cream was a good replacement for "The Child" with the way Amy and Tails matured in Sonic Adventure.
Blaze and Eggman-Nega were decent additions to Rush games, though Sonic 06's story would probably make more sense without them.
Most other new characters in the Modern Games seem like adding new characters for the sake of adding new characters when an existing Character would have serve the same part just as well.

[Rox64]

Nothing, because Sonic games aren't ruined.

[Ivogoji]

I'd say I'm what Concept: Mobius labeled as a game purist. With the exception of the Fleetway comic (mostly because it's closer to the games than other depictions but at the same time highly original), the only Sonic related media I'm truly interested in are the games themselves, and I strictly observe the Japanese storyline. No Mobius, no butchered English profiles for the Chaotix, and absolutely no totally radical talk from that hedgehog. NOT SO MUCH AS ONE "GOTTA JUICE"- EVER!

Chilidogs are okay though. They are canon.

To this end I've read every Japanese manual to the Sonic games prior to SA, as well as Japanese strategy guides and some promotional material. Wish I could get my hands on the Sonic Battle guide. It had a relationship chart!:P

I approve of everything that's Sonic as far as games go, even Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Next Gen, though consider Sonic Spinball outside the series proper (had a fantastic soundtrack though). I also love all the characters without exception, and have no problem with SEGA introducing more, though it would be nice if they developed the ones they have more.

My experience with other Sonic media is limited. I've never watched a single episode of SatAM or read any of the Archie comics, though I thought they had some interesting ideas. I liked AoStH pretty well but never saw much of it. Sonic Underground is cool and I try to watch it on TV whenever I can. Loved Sonic X, saw nearly every episode. I used to read the manga, but the website that hosted the translations disappeared a while ago. It wasn't much to write home about, except the promotional manga of Sonic 1, which was quite cool. Fleetway stands out as my favorite continuity outside the games. STC did so much more with the video game concepts than other versions ever could and was written so well for a seven page strip, I find it hard not to love it.

[PinkIceFox]

Every Japanese Manual!? Darn, Ivo, yout out Fan even myself. D: *bows down* I am not worthy!

I agree about most of the games (Shadow the Hedgehog, 2006, Secret Rings, and Black Knight are probably the only ones I have any sort of real issue with), and I love all of the main characters. Even the Big and Marine. Heck I like Big and Marine more than Blaze. Though I will say the Riders series annoys me because for the life of me I just cannot beat Sonic's story mode of the first game! I've been trapped on the final race for years! D:

I've never seen Sonic SatAM, Only seen songs from Sonic Underground, and never saw the other sonic cartoon except for one or two episodes online. I've never looked at the Fleetway Comics, nor read any of the Archie Comics (save the preview comic that came with my Vector and Espio action figures) but AtomicBat has read copies of them, and he seems to like it quite a lot. I've researched Archie Sonic since I was at least 13 years old, so I have pretty much basic knowledge of everything.

[Jordano440]

I just miss playing as other characters.

[Lamby]

I don't get as excited about Sonic games as I did when I was a kid. Not because I think the games aren't as good, but because at their core they're speedy platform games that have really only seen a handful of structural changes over the years. I wouldn't call this a flaw, necessarily, but that feeling of newness that leads to excitement is harder to come by now that I'm an adult, because I really only can afford to buy things that really stand out. I still buy Sonic games but they're usually backlog purchases.

These days I'm more interested in Archie Sonic, because I prefer its universe over the games'. I think the character development and writing is much more skillful than Sega's, so I'm more likely to spend money on that media.