Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Remember the old Sonic Games? Or even the newer ones! Talk about these Sonic games here, whether you are stuck or just want to talk about your favourite game!
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Rajikaru
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Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Rajikaru »

Sonic Adventure WASN'T the first 3D Sonic game.

And no, it wasn't Sonic 3D Blast, either. Nor was it Sonic Jam, as the Hub World wasn't an actual 3D game according to semantics, but I digress.

The first true 3D Sonic game was Sonic R, which was released in 1997, two years before Sonic Adventure. It was fully 3D, not isometric 3D like Sonic 3D Blast, or 2.5D, like Sonic the Fighters, and was an actual full 3D game, unlike Sonic Jam.

Also in my opinion it was actually a pretty good Sonic game and I loved playing it.

Make sure to tell your friends, because I'm sick of everybody saying Sonic Adventure was the first 3D sonic game.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

I think you mean isometric, not stereoscopic regarding 3D Blast. Stereoscopic 3D is when you create the illusion of depth by displaying different images to each eye. Though, if you want to count isometric as 3D, SegaSonic Arcade precedes 3D Blast by a few years.

Also, while Sonic R is the first fully 3D Sonic game(in the sense that it features both polygonal graphics and 3D movement), Sonic Adventure still has the honor of being the first fully 3D main line Sonic game while R is firmly in the spin-off category.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by ShadriaFan »

TJ Davis...several say that her singing and talking in the game was horrible, but I loved it. Memorable tracks, to this day I still go onto Sonic Gems Collection or Youtube to listen to the Sonic R soundtrack. :3
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あぼーん!
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Crash32 »

But 3D Blast used sprites, not 3D Models and such.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Ivogoji »

The real problem with counting Sonic R as the first 3D Sonic game was how much it failed the franchise as a proper Saturn release when that console saw such strong titles as Nights into Dreams and Shenmue. Instead of Sonic X-treme or the prototypical Sonic Adventure that became Sonic Jam's hub world, the world got a clunky racing game. It did introduce what are likely the two most memorable Sonic characters of all time- Metal Knuckles and the Tails Doll- and it had the most funkadelic soundtrack the series has seen so far, but still, so much less than what Sonic the Hedgehog deserved.
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あぼーん!
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Crash32 »

Except it does, as were talking about "The first true 3D Sonic game"
Isometric sprites aren't true 3D, it's more of an illusion
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

@Ivogoji: I thought the original Shenmue was a Dreamcast title? I do have to agree that Sonic R, while enjoyable, reaally doesn't hold up to the competition even when it was new. Ridiculously low poly models(granted, that as much due to the Saturn having crap polygon capabilities compared to the PS1 and N64 as it is to any shortcomings in the game's art direction), 5 Tracks when most other cart rcers of the day offered at least thrice that, and platforming mechanics so clunky it feels like they released a Beta build to the general public.

@Crash32: Technically, every graphical technique that gives an impression of depth is a trick, as even with polygonal graphics, its still just a 2-d array of pixels being displayed on the screen and sent to your eyes. Granted polygonal graphics have actual 3-D information that could be used to create a physical model given the right technology whereas Isometric is simply arranging 2-d elements in a way that gives the illusion of 3d.

Anyways, if you are going to count Isometric graphics with fixed camera 3-d movement, 3D Blast is at least the third 3D Sonic as 3D Blast was released in 1996 while Sonic Labyrinth was released in 1995 and SegaSonic Arcade came out in 1993.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Ivogoji »

Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:@Ivogoji: I thought the original Shenmue was a Dreamcast title?
Er, whoops, yeah that's trueXD I was thinking of the beta intended for the Saturn... and the beta version is still a much more impressive game than the finished Sonic R. I probably shouldn't count it though if it wasn't actually released on that system.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Rajikaru »

Ivogoji wrote:The real problem with counting Sonic R as the first 3D Sonic game was how much it failed the franchise as a proper Saturn release when that console saw such strong titles as Nights into Dreams and Shenmue. Instead of Sonic X-treme or the prototypical Sonic Adventure that became Sonic Jam's hub world, the world got a clunky racing game. It did introduce what are likely the two most memorable Sonic characters of all time- Metal Knuckles and the Tails Doll- and it had the most funkadelic soundtrack the series has seen so far, but still, so much less than what Sonic the Hedgehog deserved.
To be fair, it was probably better for them to wait for the Dreamcast to come out, and make a much better game. If there's an option between waiting for a new more powerful system to come out, and pushing out a new game at the former system's last few years, it'd always be smarter to go for the newer, as to give more incentive to purchase the new system, as well as having less limitations with what's possible (it's very likely that we probably wouldn't have gotten the character redesigns, chao islands, or bigger world hubs had the game came out on the Saturn).

Also, no, 3D Blast is not fully 3D. It uses only sprites and an isometric plane made of said sprites to give an actual illusion to depth, Sonic R uses fully 3D landscapes, models and all, and has fully 3D characters. It is explorable in every axis, whereas Sonic 3D Blast has a limited Z axis and diagonal movement along the other 2 axes.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Ivogoji »

^That's true. Rushing games instead of developing them fully is what made Sonic Next Gen such a disaster.
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あぼーん!
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by KeatonLabs »

Nova! wrote:Sonic Adventure WASN'T the first 3D Sonic game.

And no, it wasn't Sonic 3D Blast, either. Nor was it Sonic Jam, as the Hub World wasn't an actual 3D game according to semantics, but I digress.

The first true 3D Sonic game was Sonic R, which was released in 1997, two years before Sonic Adventure. It was fully 3D, not isometric 3D like Sonic 3D Blast, or 2.5D, like Sonic the Fighters, and was an actual full 3D game, unlike Sonic Jam.

Also in my opinion it was actually a pretty good Sonic game and I loved playing it.

Make sure to tell your friends, because I'm sick of everybody saying Sonic Adventure was the first 3D sonic game.


While this is true, It seems pretty obvious to me that when they say the first 3D sonic game, they are saying the first 3D sonic game to stay true to what the series is about. So yes, sonic R is the first 3D sonic game, but it doesn't play like a 3D sonic game and is a spin off. Note, I'm not denying it, I'm just saying that adventure was the first to stay true to what a sonic game is and how one would be in the third dimension.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Rajikaru »

...?
It's a game where you run fast with Tails and Knuckles and battle against Robotnik/Eggman and Metal Sonic. And also Amy chases you. You collect Chaos Emeralds. It's literally Sonic Adventure 0.5.
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Post by KeatonLabs »

But once you consider that said chasing is a race, it's a different story. In sonic adventure, you do everything sonic could do(minus the insta shield) and more like bouncing on badniks, breaking capsules, it's literally a 2D sonic in the third dimension.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Rajikaru »

Eh, I'm not one for arguing semantics, I'm more literal minded, Sonic R is still the first 3D sonic game shrug
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Post by KeatonLabs »

KeatonLabs wrote:,. Note, I'm not denying it, I'm just saying that adventure was the first to stay true to what a sonic game is and how one would be in the third dimension.
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Post by Rajikaru »

Nova! wrote:Eh, I'm not one for arguing semantics, I'm more literal minded, Sonic R is still the first 3D sonic game shrug
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by EvilPinkamina »

KeatonLabs wrote:But once you consider that said chasing is a race, it's a different story. In sonic adventure, you do everything sonic could do(minus the insta shield) and more like bouncing on badniks, breaking capsules, it's literally a 2D sonic in the third dimension.
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

Honestly, I'd say Sonic Adventure violates the shared formula of the Genesis Trilogy in just as many ways as Sonic R, and there are plenty of people who would argue that no 3D Sonic has captured the same feel as the Genesis Trilogy. Then again, 2D vs 3D causes such a fundamental change in how characters interact with the world that it's almost impossible to translate a platformer from one to the other an maintain the same feel.

Of course, had Sonic Xtreme been released, it would probably be credited by most as the first 3D Sonic despite the fact that it was going to use pre-rendered sprites instead of 3-D modles for Sonic and badniks(the same graphical trick that Nights into Dreams used to produce such beautiful 3-D looking graphics despite the Saturn's poor polygon capabilities).
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ShadriaFan wrote:TJ Davis...several say that her singing and talking in the game was horrible, but I loved it. Memorable tracks, to this day I still go onto Sonic Gems Collection or Youtube to listen to the Sonic R soundtrack. :3
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Re: Alright, alright, alright, let's make this clear.

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