Larrys vs Meowths

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Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Ivogoji »

There has been some confusion on the subject of Larrys and Meowths. How they are alike and how they are different. I will explain the nature of the two roles briefly and concisely.

In fiction, as in life, when a trio of characters comes together, there exists a dynamic that defines the relationships between them. In most cases- but not in all- an ensemble of three characters will have a leader, who is in charge of the trio's actions and decisions, creating a small hierarchy within the group.

Next to the leader, there is almost always a Lancer, someone who butts heads with the leader and challenges his decisions more than anyone else. It doesn't matter where he is in the hierarchy, he can be in the middle or at the bottom, but his character is always defined by how he clashes with the leader. If separated from the rest of the ensemble, the leader and the lancer form a duo with an obvious, identifiable dynamic.

Next to this well defined, dynamic duo, there is a third wheel. The third wheel is always either a Larry or a Meowth.

Now what makes a Larry a Larry? While the leader and the lancer have their quarrels and confrontations, the Larry is just... there. Sometimes trying to mediate the conflict, usually getting caught up in it, the Larry does not noticeably contribute to the dynamic exhibited by the other two members of the trio. He does not have a unique dynamic with either the leader or the lancer. If the Larry is alone with the leader, he will behave like a less exaggerated version of the lancer; if alone with the lancer, two will exhibit similar behavior as when interacting with the leader.

Consider the original Larry. Moe is the impatient leader, Curly the cut-up lancer. And Larry is... there. Larry gets on Moe's nerves (a bit) when Curly isn't around, and Curly gets on Larry's nerves (slightly) when Moe isn't around. And there's not much more to it than that, most of the time.

Now, in contrast, we have Meowths. Meowths are third wheels just like Larrys, but unlike them they have more fleshed out dynamics with their co-stars. You see, the Meowth always has a distinct relationship with both the leader and the lancer. In effect, they themselves are lancers to both characters at once.

We have of course the TRio's Meowth. Meowth's dynamic with Jessie is different from her dynamic with James; unlike like the unselfish James, Meowth shares Jessie's thirst for wealth and prestige, and like her is willing to kick the dog to get what he wants. Jessie and Meowth frequently conspire together when James is having an attack of conscience. However, unlike the bossy Jessie, Meowth treats James with respect and would rather smooth talk people into cooperating with him than threatening them with violence as Jessie does. When Jessie goes off the deep end with her zany ambitions, the more down to Earth James and Meowth take comfort that at least they don't have to put up with her alone.

Not all groups of three characters necessarily have a Larry or a Meowth. Remember, there must be a defined hierarchy between the members of the trio.
1- Moe
2- Larry
3- Curly

1- Jessie
2- James
3- Meowth

A team without a real chain of command has no third wheel and thus no Larry/Meowth. For instances, Team Sonic doesn't really have a second-in-command, and thus neither Tails or Knuckles could be called the third wheel (it would be something of a stretch to call Sonic a leader for that matter).

Examples of Larrys
Larry of the Three Stooges
Shuu from Pilaf Gang
Big from Team Rose
Cubot from the trio of Eggman, Orbot, and Cubot
Coconuts when teamed with Scratch and Grounder
Edith from Despicable Me
Eleanor from the Chimpettes (contrast Theodore)
Alex from Totally Spies
Marilyn from the Shadow Sirens
Ling from Mulan
Ed from the Lion King hyenas

Examples of Meowths
Meowth of Team Rocket
Android 16 around 17 & 18
Omega of Team Dark
Charmy of Team Chaotix
Storm from the Babylon Rogues
Ice Bear from We Bare Bears
Theodore from the Chimpmunks (contrast Eleanor)
Bubbles from the Powerpuff Girls
Dot of the Warner Siblings
Inigo from Princess Bride
Ed from Ed, Edd, and Eddy

Non-examples: Team Sonic (no third wheel), the three siblings of Sonic Underground (no defined hierarchy), Kirk, Spock, and McCoy (they are a Freudian Trio), the Golden Trio from Harry Potter (Harry is only very nominally a leader and otherwise there's no hierarchy)
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Rajikaru »

Am I right in assuming that Big is the "Larry" of Team Rose from Sonic Heroes only because he's "just there"?

Also, aren't there better terms for the characters you're discussing than "Larrys" and "Meowths"? I'd imaginge TV Tropes has given a name to at least one of them.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Ivogoji »

No, there isn't a better name.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by mintdrop »

@Nova: I think in the case of Team Rose there isn't much conflict to begin with. At the most, Amy's rashness and extreme love for Sonic can invoke concern in Cream, and Cream's problems are sometimes forgotten about by Amy in order to pursue her own goals, but that doesn't happen often. To be honest, I don't really see what Big contributes to the team - he doesn't communicate with them or reply to them, but makes abstract comments about Froggy. He's just there because he's strong physically and can aid them in that way, I guess. He doesn't really contribute to the dynamic because he doesn't interact, so maybe he's a third type of third wheel? >:0
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Ivogoji »

Big is a Larry because he has no individual dynamic with either Amy or Cream.

It was Edith from Despicable Me who inspired this topic. Because she's such a huge Larry.

If there is any confusion about who is a Larry, this song should clear it up.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Crash32 »

How does TSTJ stack up?
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Rajikaru »

I'd consider Wakko more of a third wheel than Dot, as much as I love him, he's not nearly as prevalent in skits as Dot tends to be, especially since Dot has such a more noticeable characterization. He's not really of any importance except in the movie.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Nano »

Either Crash or I is the 3rd wheel.

Clearly.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Ivogoji »

^Which one of you has the weaker dynamic with retro?

I'm leaning towards Crash.
Nova! wrote:I'd consider Wakko more of a third wheel than Dot, as much as I love him, he's not nearly as prevalent in skits as Dot tends to be, especially since Dot has such a more noticeable characterization. He's not really of any importance except in the movie.
That's probably more accurate really.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Crash32 »

Honestly I don't even know if we could work with such a dynamic. We've done it, we've broken it!

Usually Retro will join one of us when playing TF2. Because of timezones, it tends to be one or the other and not all three. Sometimes Fox and Retro will start playing and I'll join in. Sometimes Fox and I will be playing and Retro will join in. Sometimes Retro and I will be playing and Fox will join in.

I don't know if we could truly fit this dynamic.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Ivogoji »

Napoleon, Wendel, and Floyd, the talking bugs from Phineas and Ferb who appeared in the episode 'Doof 101'.
Napoleon is the brains, Wendel is the muscle, and Floyd...
"Floyd is the ballast?"
"Right, Floyd's the ballast!"
... classic Larry.
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Re: Larrys vs Meowths

Post by Pufflehugs »

Larries:
  • SML Reviewer (DaBHDude, SML Reviewer & Flamey Cat)
    Tim (TheRunawayGuys)
    Joshy (Yoshi Player, Cleverix and SuperJoshuaBros1)
    Yoshi (Super Mario Bros Super Show)
    Pre-Halloween 2015 Joseph (SuperMarioLogan)
    Skylanders (Iggy's pyramid of being Iggy)
    Tuff (Kirby: Right Back at Ya)
Meowths:
  • Woody (SuperMarioLogan)
    Post-Halloween 2015 Joseph (SuperMarioLogan)
    Jon (Garfield)
    Labelle (Animal Crossing)
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