cinnamonstyx wrote:i dont think anything you said was invalid but i dont see a lot of political ******** here aside from goat which you know goat, how he does.
Maybe that's because some people took my advice to heart.
cinnamonstyx wrote:the rest of the topic has been, idk, discussion around that, people whining about drama, and then me out here with my news updates.
Most of the topic has been people responding specifically to Goat's post. If you all just say "goat does goat", why even repsond to him?
This topic is less than two pages long, and it's all either responding to goat, or us responding to everyone that making another crapstorm isn't a good idea.
Out of all your posts on the topic, 1/6th of them can be considered an "update".
cinnamonstyx wrote:
what im saying is more so that like the only issue is goat, and that civil discussions are totally possible if we get over being wimpy about wanting to have civil convos.
Why single just one person out of the group? Goat is part of the issue. He isn't THE issue.
How can we have a civil discussion without wanting a civil discussion?
cinnamonstyx wrote:
and i think by now theres a good amount of info, like if you look at objective facts, police reports, AP, theres a story here and more than enough to be like "yikes, this is bad, how do we deal with this, where do we go from here" all of which can be political but can be discussed reasonably.
Sure, there's enough information now. I can agree with that.
Batty was directly replying to mine and Eboy's position to not cause drama, and just wait for the facts. Those posts were made
while the situation was transpiring. And after, Eboy just wanted people to stop focusing on Triert's post, which was made
before we knew the shooters weren't affiliated with BLM.
cinnamonstyx wrote:
waiting is good but you dont gotta be like "conversation rn is bogus", its gonna happen one way or another, ya know?
I wasn't like that. Again, my posts were made
while things were still happening. They were made before we had really any solid information. The only post I made that wasn't while things were happening, was the one post I made about things sucking either way, whether it's BLM or not.
Batty wrote:again, i just don't buy fence-sitting, and i'm not gonna appease people that blunder about because of the logical fallacy that because something is the "average" between viewpoints it is enlightened.
I don't think waiting a day is fence-sitting.
I never asked you to appease to anyone. I'm just saying mistakes happen.
Batty wrote:
not waiting would be barging in the thread and saying "BLM are terrorists do u think they're worth anything" without knowing any details
Yes. I never agreed with Goat. Again, I feel Goat is part of the problem.
I only directly replied to you, because you oppposed mine and eboy's stance on the subject. Mine and eboy's stance would have allowed for Goat to know the details.
Your stance is actually exactly what Goat did. You're the one saying that we should all practice the same actions Goat takes.
Batty wrote:
me following the the thread and news and public opinion and pundits across the spectrum waiting until this story had a pile of objective information and then comparing this incident to a history of toxic responses to similar ones, a culture of brewing contrarianism and anti-intelluctualism, then making social commentary that was validated by objective information someone keeping me posted shared with me... is hardly spewing my personal politics with reckless abandon.
I never said you did, however you said that you were planning on making a post a day beforehand, when not all information considering the matter was released.
Again, I was replying to your opposition of mine and Eboy's stance to wait for information. If you actually practiced what you just stated you did here, you waited for the information to come out, and cross-checked said information, then you did exactly what at least I wanted people to wait on.
Batty wrote:
in fact, regardless of your beliefs, there is no kneejerk accident when you assume guilt from a movement that actively advocates for nonviolence. that is willfully being obstinate and ranting and perpetuating an observable schism in american society.
I don't think making a mistake is being obstinate.
A fair bit of my left-swinging friends also thought it was BLM when news first broke out. Even some of my friends IN the BLM movement thought it was BLM.
Jumping the gun is a thing, and it's what I'm trying to stop people from doing.
Batty wrote:
also my post doesn't even indicate "i'm better and more educated than conservatives therefore i'm justified in saying this" because people across the spectrum share the same sentiment i do. i mentioned the right wing once because there is significantly more disdain for BLM that can't be looked over within it. otherwise i delegated my criticism to "any american that"
I never said anything like that. I just said that we should wait for facts to come out, and for people to calm down, before we go into any discussion.
Batty wrote:
also if a tragedy isn't the time to address issues that surround it, when is, because waiting until after them doesn't do much in securing changes for the future in my opinion. and i wasn't directing anger at anyone in particular because i was focused on general sentiments. did some posts influence what i said, sure, but i was talking about a certain narrative i'm seeing everywhere
I don't think waiting for us to see all aspects of a story is waiting too long. You're also implying that we should go into political discussion
during the act, which I definitely don't agree with, and you don't agree with that notion, if your quote above is to be believed.
I never said you were directing anger at anyone. I never said that any posts influenced what you said.
Batty wrote:
i don't see the point in battening down the hatches in case something erupts especially when if we're getting out of hand there are mods to regulate behavior. idk that's all i got. i don't disagree with you fundamentally, but i don't think there is a point to tragedy discussion if we aren't even going to bother analyzing it or dangerous narratives that can follow as things develop
I just wanted people to wait and calm down. I hardly call that "Battening the hatches". ^^;
It's also a mod's job to stop negative behavior beforehand, too, because a mod isn't a superhuman. A mod can't know something is instantly wrong, and go and fix the problem.
If we just waited on the subject, then Goat's post wouldn't have been what it was. He would have had more facts at the ready. So, it seems like the "only issue" would have been fixed if we would have just cooled off and waited a day. ^^;
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Anyhow, this topic is getting off-topic, if anyone wants to continue discussion further than a few sentences or something, please PM me or whatever.