Religion discussion

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Religion discussion

Post by Tsui »

  • No arguing. Only calm debating of morals, etc. In some cases, agree to disagree.
Hi, so I've been curious about what religion I'd fall under but I have no idea where to start! :herosurprise:

It feels like I take a few beliefs from here and a few from there... I've only really been exposed to Catholicism (most of my family) and Wicca (my mother) and grew up mostly apathetic towards it all, shrugging off the repeated suggestion of studying religions. Never doing that, I have no clue what on earth I'd be considered. I can try to summarize what I think, I suppose: [begin special snowflake mode]
Spoiler:
  • Incarnation: I believe in past and future incarnations, potentially of all living things both plant and animal and beyond, and though I don't think humans may be the end of the line, I think we start off as simpler organisms and move on to more complex ones. I feel a strong, almost empathetic connection to deer, believing a deer may be one of my immediate incarnations before or after this one. I do think trees are toward the end of the incarnation line.

    Afterlife: In the in-between in the case there is no space left for a soul to possess a body or we simply don't reincarnate, or at the end of things, I just don't believe in a Hell. Heaven is closer to what I imagine, but I'm not entirely sure what to call it. I imagine it as peaceful at the least.

    Theism: I can't comprehend the concept of monotheism. At the very least it seems lonely. I seem to reference "the world" instead when some people might use "God" - such as "the world must have it out for me" or similar. Polytheism along the lines of many smaller deities watching things go down under some more powerful deities seems more appropriate to me. I do tend to see the Earth itself as one of these more powerful deities. This may just be fascination with Greek mythology at a young age still present to some degree though. I also possess a passive worship of nature in general. I don't pray, and do not regularly try to communicate with any higher being(s).

    Punishment, Karma: I just follow the Wiccan threefold rule applied to all things. Though it's meant for working with magic and energy, I think it's just a good rule for life.

    Morals, forgiveness: I very strongly believe that adolescents are always shedding their skin, so to speak, and their attitude and opinions may change drastically in the course of even months. As such, forgiveness toward children is nice, I mean unless there's a pattern of violence or abusive behavior with a lack of remorse over a period of years and stuff. Y'know. Adults are less, uh, forgivable. However, I don't believe you should hold malice all the way after someone's death. But hey, it's different for everyone and every case. So I don't try to tell anyone, "hey, you should probably be nice to this person who hurt you a while back." That's their decision themselves. Besides, you're allowed to feel emotions. Some emotions last a long time.
    In general, don't be mean, don't hurt people on purpose, learn from your mistakes, say sorry if you hurt someone. Try for getting along with as many people as possible. I think giving forgiveness toward someone who seems to genuinely express remorse is a good person thing that good people do.

    Laws: If you feel a rule doesn't sit right with you, fight for change, but go for the system and leave innocent random individuals out of it. Let your voice be heard. I'm generally a rules person myself, but I guess I'm also one o' them feisty rebels at times.

    General attitude in life: Don't be a jerk. Don't be afraid to call out awful individuals who are. Gently correct someone who messes up or hurts you unintentionally. Yelling and violence don't solve much when it comes to personal issues. Try your best to reach your goals. It's okay if your best isn't someone else's best. Don't bully people. Don't be a jerk to someone for what they are instead of who they are. (sex and gender, disability, ethnicity, etc.) It's okay to react and feel emotion but if you're mean then you should probably say sorry.
Yes, I'm aware I come off as very holier-than-thou and may even think that way. And I'm not a perfect person. I fail to follow what I think is right sometimes. I hate some people out there and will probably hate them for a long time. Also, please note that I don't intentionally carry an angry tone in what I type out there - unless it's toward someone specific and it's a personal issue, but I don't like to bring that out in public. When you're going to a assume I'm using a negative tone, please instead think of a monotone, especially since I take on a monotone in real life when I'm not particularly happy.

[end special snowflake mode]


The intention of this topic is to share thoughts on religion and belief-related topics. It'd also be cool for anyone experienced enough in this area to help me out with my confusion. But in any case, I know this is sometimes a personal subject, but please no arguing. :herosway:

edit: cleared up some wording toward the end oops
Last edited by Tsui on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Ivogoji »

I'm a Mormon. I could help you with identifying systems of metaphysics you're sympathetic to. Mormons are all about metaphysics.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by CanSteam »

I have zero idea what religon or anything I identify with. I never really think of that.
is the pikmin in my avatar on something or...
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

Disclaimer: I have not studied any religion in detail, and beyond the major world religions of today, there are some that I only have a Wikipedia level of knowledge on.

Among major world religions of today, your views on incarnation and the afterlife sound most in line with Buddhism. Granted, incarnation of any form is a minority belief among dominant religions of today with Hinduism being the only other major religion with such beliefs. In Buddhism, being reincarnated as a lower life-form is the closest thing to an actual hell, and the nearest analog of heaven is to be freed from the cycle of reincarnation and achieve Nirvana.

I'm not entirely sure why, but your views on gods and the divine give me Shinto and Buddhist vibes, but in reality, the majority of non-Abrahamic religions have some form of polytheism. Probably worth noting: Buddhism believes that gods exist, but that they are likewise stuck in the cycle of reincarnation and possess no qualities that make them worthy of worship. That said, I believe the term for equating the world or the universe with god is pantheism.

As for morality, I'd like to point out that, while most religions prescribe a moral code, morality can, and arguably should, be divorced from spirituality. That said, even among academics, this is a field where there is little agreement as to which systems are better, and I don't think I could do a satisfactory job summarizing the major schools of thought, though I will list a few of them in case you wish to travel down that rabbit hole:

Deontology
consequentialism
utilitarianism
virtue ethics
quasi-realism

As for my own views,

I am agnostic. The term literally means without knowledge and is the belief that there are things beyond human knowledge that might be inherently unknowable. To frame it in the question:

Does god exist?

The theist will answer yes with full conviction.
The atheist will answer no with the same conviction.
The agnostic will answer maybe or I don't know.

That said, I believe available evidence provides strong support to the oblivion hypothesis as to what happens to our consciousness when we die or even when our bodies continue to live but our brains have deteriorated to the point they can no longer support our minds. If I'm wrong and there is some kind of afterlife or reincarnation, I'll worry about it when I'm dead.

As for the existence of God, if there is a god, the universe as I understand it seems to be most compatible with deism, the belief that god created the universe according to natural laws, set the mechanisms into motion, and then sat back to watch creation work without interference. In other words, by the deist interpretation, god wrote mathematics and the laws of physics, and triggered the creation of the universe according to those and the core goal of science can be stated as examining the workings of god's mechanism in order to better understand its workings. Or in even simpler terms, a deistic god caused the big bang.

Morality wise, I identify as a utilitarian, though I find virtue ethics useful as a means of expressing my utility function to others.

I am a fan of the Wiccan rede:
An it harm none, do as thou wilt.
Or in more modern English:
If it harms none, do as you please.

and I've expanded it into three principles that form the core of my utility function:
That which does harm is bad.
That which reduces harm is good.
That which neither does or reduces harm is neither good or bad.

I also uphold that most acts fall in the third of the three categories described.

I also don't like the golden rule as a masochist being a sadist strikes me as very bad. I was also recently introduced to the platinum rule, but I'm not yet sure if I want to integrate it into my utility function.

The platinum rule states:
Treat people as they want to be treated.

I also tend to think in terms of complementary virtues rather than a virtue and its dichotomous sin. For example, I view pride and humility not as a sin and its corresponding virtue, but as a pair of virtues where th sin is extreme imbalance. Pride without humility leads to arrogance and hubris, but humility without pride leads to a lack of self-worth, both of which are unhealthy.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by chaoadventures »

Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:I am agnostic.
Oh. So that's the name for it. Pretty sure that's what I am too. I never really took any one of these as the de facto one or that they simply couldn't happen either.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Lamby »

i can't take religion seriously. accepting it would mean there is some order or purpose to a world full of disease and death, or that we're nothing but some abandoned curiosity by a sick higher being. and bad things happening to good people and that is ridiculous to me. i mean, i get it, religion is a coping mechanism for some people, and it's easier to accept than the fact we exist due to random events and therefore life doesn't have meaning and that there is nothing dignified about dying because it means nothing and it'll always be lonely. dying happy is hollywood stuff. but i'll just stick with antidepressants and painkillers

but i'm more comfortable in a world devoid of purpose or spirituality, means i'm in control and no cosmic doctor strange stuff is there to punish me. that the good in humanity comes from us only. that when i die, it just shuts off, and that the future universe is ours as far as we can claim it

also i don't think religion should ever supersede the state or science and i strongly disagree with being to opt out of public responsibility because of religion. vaccination, sex education, evolution/whatever the best theories we have currently are, attendance, federal mandates, taxes ... all things more important than a private philosophy that belongs in your own home. i also think future generations should be encouraged to focus on science, religious talk so early couldn't be good for a kid's academic and social development. once my kids are teenagers then they can decide their coping mechanism on their own if they really want one

i'm not gonna treat religious people badly, as long as i don't hear commentary about whether i'm a real woman or not, or other bigoted things, otherwise, whether you're something traditional like a mormon or decided to borrow some native american animal stuff from a history book you connected with, it's whatever, you do you it's not my business and i'm not trying to persuade a religious person to stop being one

existentialist ramblings about us being a simulation are also fun to read.
Last edited by Lamby on Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Nano »

I don't have a religion, but if I did I'd probably be Jewish cause they make the most sense.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Mephilesfan1 »

I don't have a religion but I do believe in spirits, ghosts and reincarnation. Things like that. I also believe there's a higher being up there. Who is it? I dunno. I also believe in karma and spreading positivity and peace and positive vibes. That's about the extent of it, though.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Ivogoji »

^Off topic, but Mephilesfan, how is it someone like you who rarely posts change your avatar so much?

I'll be scanning through old threads from back in 2011 and see your posts and say "wait, Mephilesfan's avatar is Peridot? I thought it was Top Snek?"
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Mephilesfan1 »

i apologize :c i just change it whenever i go on here the next time i scan the forums
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by chaobreedersmh »

Tsui, your beliefs resonate with me. Particularly those about morality, but also the other things.

I believe some of the same things you do, I believe in many gods, I don't believe in Hell, I believe in reincarnation.

I believe in many gods, but I don't believe they have much power over the universe. Gods to me aren't gods in the traditional sense. I think gods are just vastly more experienced souls. Prayer for me is about speaking to your mentors, I view the gods as friends on equal ground that will help you through life as best they can.

What the gods can do for you is be a shoulder to cry on, give advice if you can manage to meet with them, and they may give you a bit of luck. They are able to influence things slightly so they have a better chance of working out in your favor, but you can't just pray for a miracle and it will happen. I believe you have as much power as they do, actually, but in order to tap into that you have to truly believe, and it's way easier to believe in a god's power than your own. The gods already believe in their own power due to their experience, so they can help you out a bit.

Hell to me doesn't make sense. I believe in total forgiveness in death. I don't believe in Heaven much either, more like... An astral plane where all souls live. I believe that we have higher selves, and that only a piece of us gets born into a physical body. Our higher selves are a culmination of all of our lives, all the knowledge and experience we have gotten during them. I think that we reincarnate until we no longer have a need or desire to, gods have reached the point where there isn't a need to reincarnate anymore, but I'm not sure if they choose to anyway because that's a personal choice. If they did choose to reincarnate, I imagine they would radiate positive energy. Not free from sin or mistakes since they are still only a piece of their entire being, but definitely wiser and kinder than most.

I believe we can reincarnate into any living thing. We reincarnate to learn until there is nothing left for your higher self to learn. Then we can choose to reincarnate because we enjoyed the ride and want to go again.

I don't identify as a specific religion because I disagree with some aspects of all religions. But I hold Buddhism close to my heart, I first heard of it when I was very young, and I felt a connection to it. I think Buddhists have it right when they say life is suffering, we suffer because of desire, and we can be freed of suffering by freeing ourselves of desire. Nirvana is something I disagree with a bit, while I do believe that a true Buddha no longer has a need to reincarnate, I don't believe that we can only end the cycle by reaching nirvana nor do I believe reaching nirvana ends the cycle of rebirth completely.

Someday, in a future life, I'm sure I will become a Buddha myself. This life is not the time, though. I've got a long way to go before I'm ready to follow The Eightfold Path, so I don't feel comfortable calling myself Buddhist in this life.

Tsui, what are your thoughts on beings such as demons and angels? What about everyone else in this thread?
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Wolf »

i worship my bf honestly :herosway: :darksway:
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by BlackLuigi7 »

I'm Athiest, and I've been one for a good while.
Being an Athiest doesn't mean you absolutely, 100% believe there is no god. It's simply that you don't believe in a god. You can honestly say that you're unsure if a god exists or not, but you can still be Athiest. Saying that Athiests will 100% tell you with conviction that a god doesn't exist is wholly false; most of the time when you hear an Athiest say that, they're just reaffirming evidence that they feel proves a god doesn't exist.

On the flip side, Agnostics believe that we can't know anything about a god. Since any evidence "proving" a god is real is usually full of holes, and since you cannot 100% disprove anything, they believe that we will never know whether a god is real or not. So being unsure whether a god is real or not doesn't make you Agnostic, but all Agnostics are unsure if a god is real or not.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

In all fairness, some of it comes down to an argument of definition and both atheism and agnosticism have been divided into soft/weak and hard/strong varieties with typical definitions usually being something along the lines of:

weak atheism: lack of belief in any deity.
strong atheism: conviction that there are no deities.
weak agnosticism: belief that current knowledge is insufficient to answer "are there deities?".
strong agnosticism: Belief that the existence of deities is inherently unknowable.

I also think Clark's third law and it's corollary might be relevant here:
Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Corollary: Any sufficiently advance alien intelligence is indistinguishable from God.

Which seem to be in support of strong agnosticism.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Pratzelwurm »

Disclaimer: I'm not really hard set in any of these beliefs; they're just based on what I think makes the most sense, but I consider them flexible and could very well change them in the future.

I believe that every person has their own individual path to walk in whatever religion or lack of that they choose, and for me, that's Wicca. I'm a solitary practitioner (meaning I don't belong to a coven), and I consider myself more spiritual than religious. I practices the eight sabbaths and occasionally do nature rituals. I don't really cast "spells," per say, but I do try to send positive energy to other people, kinda like praying. I believe in spirit guides, or the manifestations of different living things (usually animals) which exist on the spiritual plane and serve to guide you along your path, different ones having different purposes. My main two are a cat and a butterfly, but I also have a snake, a fox, an otter, a jackrabbit, a scorpion, a squirrel, and a crocodile. I believe that everything in the universe has a purpose and must all work together in order to achieve balance; nothing is any more important than anything else, and everything plays a part. Actually, quite a bit of my beliefs have to do with balance and cycles.

I follow the core practice of "an it harm none, do what ye will." In modern English: As long as you don't hurt anyone or anything (including yourself), you can do whatever you want. Because of this, I'm very much a pacifist and I believe that non-violent non-aggressive solutions are nearly always the better option. I also believe in reincarnation, but not really the traditional kind; I think that when you die, your life energy returns to the universe and reforms as a new living thing, which is not always human; I actually believe that I've been a feline sometime in my past lives. I do think though that sometimes it takes awhile for a "soul" to fully move on, which is where you get ghosts, and that sometimes people will leave imprints of themselves behind, which is where you get apparitions.

I also practice divination, channeled through tarot cards, but under the knowledge that nothing is ever set in stone and the future is always changing.

That's pretty much the basics of my religion, but if anyone has questions I don't mind going over it in more detail.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by Enzo03 »

I used to be a Christian until I learned that I was only culturally so - I only said I believed because I was told to and because I was raised to, not because I ever genuinely held any beliefs.

It didn't help that I discovered the Old Testament is an excellent sleep aid.
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Re: Religion discussion

Post by kellythefox »

Im a christian but just cuz your not one doesent mean you still cant be moral. its as simple as that people get with the times. :stomp:
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