LGBT+ Thread

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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Pufflehugs »

TBH this entire topic has been a complete trainwreck.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by EvilPinkamina »

The gays made ISIS. They teamed up with the lesbians and bisexuals. The LGBT+ community is just a money laundering scheme for gay ISIS.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

Triert wrote:But realy, where do all of you want to start? Because there's plenty to be said here on this topic that I seem to be responsible for keeping alive.
First of all, I feel like the entirety of this post is "look at what you gays do, whenever there's a bad gay, it's everyone in this topic's fault too".

In regards to the trans woman inmate being transferred to a woman's facility, keep in mind, that no matter where she is, she is still serving her sentence. Also keep in mind that nobody is supposed to die or otherwise be abused in prison, so if transferring her to a woman's facility decreases the likelihood of any internal or external conflict (which I'm damn sure it does), then I'd say that's the most humane thing to do. This isn't the same thing as being given a lesser sentence, I don't know if you're trying to compare this to that or not. To me this is just a step towards progress in treating transgender individuals in a more dignified matter whether inmate or not. There is nothing bad about this.

In regards to the anti-semitism, whether it be that in particular, racism, misogyny, or any other prejudices, there is a lot of issues within the LGBT+ community. Being LGBT+ does not make anyone inherently a good person, or otherwise prevents them from participating in prejudice towards other minority groups outside of the LGBT+ sphere or hell, even within the sphere since internal conflicts are so overly common that it's sickening. Nobody is saying we're perfect. Individuals of LGBT+ identity in conjunction with minority grouping outside of that sphere are especially vulnerable as that means there's a greater range of systematic oppression that can affect them, whether it be from people within the LGBT+ sphere or outside of it.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Lamby »

we get it you're afraid of trans and gay women and other sexualities and genders and make excuses for it and your pride is wounded because they destroy you in arguments

there are places like r/redpill and r/incels and breitbart where your crying would have a better use

first thing is good. this isn't an altright safe space where people validate that kinda paranoid. also antisemitism doesn't have a sexual or gender identity. consult anger management or a therapist man, i'm not even being mean, all that bitterness you have toward certain things can't be healthy. idk how exactly our existence negative affects you, and i really don't care. do you even know why you're more outraged about one lgtb person doing something bad than you are any other type of person? ur incredible. i've missed posts actually about my peers because your infowars updates. what actually are you trying to do? i'm confused
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

I'm just here to see peoples thoughts on the matter who are also LGBT, you wouldn't believe how quick this kind of stuff will get you banned in other places when you try and talk to the lettuce guacamole bacon tomato's about it

"There's nothing bad about this"

If I were a woman I wouldn't want to be in the same prison as someone who will be stronger than me no matter what kind of bulking up I do. On top of that who's also been convicted of murder. Let's say my crime was a non-physical one, I don't know much about canada but I can rest this point if someone can show me they keep those two kinds of inmates separate.

"We get it, you're afraid of trans and gays"
>Bringing back incel to your lingo with me

Lamby, lamby, lamby, you're really, really thinking you can insult my masculinity which has locked lips with another man, and insist I can't get laid. It's not going to work, it just isn't. I'm very picky when it comes to which guys I'll find attractive. Personally speaking I'm a lot like Freddy from Scooby Doo, I love traps!

Now, destroy me in arguments? I didn't know I had some kind of leftist trashy clickbait watching what I post and saying "TOP 5 TIMES TRIERT GOT TOTALLY OWNED IN A CONVERSATION."

But back to what you said. "All the bitterness you have towards certain things can't be healthy." No, it isn't. But if I try and say "I have a head injury that caused a rise in aggression and irritability about 4 months ago" I'll look like I'm just trying to cop out of taking responsibility for my actions. All I feel like I can and should do instead is this.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

I'm going to be honest and say I understand sex-segregated prisons even less than I understand sex-segregated bathrooms. I could halfway understand most cell blocks being all-men or all-women and fairly tight restrictions even in co-ed cell blocks on having opposite sex roommates and isolating the straight, male rapists from the women and vice-versa, but maintaining completely separate facilities sounds cost ineffective, and an inability for inmates to socialize with people of the opposite sex in common areas sounds counter-productive to the goal of producing people who can become contributing members of society upon release.

Then again, I'm pretty much disgusted by everything to do with prisons in the United States, from the frequency at which low- or no-danger criminals or even non-criminals get imprisoned, to the generally excessive length of minimum sentences, to the fact many petty criminals are worse when they get out than when they went in, to how some states do little or nothing about prisoners harming each other or guards abusing prisoners, to the generally outdated living conditions, etc. And yet, many of those working for the legal system have the hubris to claim they represent justice. It'd be enough to make me puke if I had a weaker stomach.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

Triert wrote:I'm just here to see peoples thoughts on the matter who are also LGBT, you wouldn't believe how quick this kind of stuff will get you banned in other places when you try and talk to the lettuce guacamole bacon tomato's about it
I can easily see why this sort of discussion is banned considering how many straight-up phobic responses can be made towards any matters related to LGBT+ community and identity if this isn't presented in a proper manner. Quite honestly I prefer such discussion from being refrained, but if you were an active LGBT+ community member and posted those links with the mindset of expressing your opinion about it as an LGBT+ individual that wishes to hear further community input, that would have been all well and dandy but that's obviously not the case here.
Triert wrote:"There's nothing bad about this"

If I were a woman I wouldn't want to be in the same prison as someone who will be stronger than me no matter what kind of bulking up I do. On top of that who's also been convicted of murder. Let's say my crime was a non-physical one, I don't know much about canada but I can rest this point if someone can show me they keep those two kinds of inmates separate.
I can easily tell you that my cisgender woman of a mother could easily beat the bejesus out of my cisgender man of a father. Would she? No, but I know she could. I'm not in agreement that anyone that's AMAB is inherently stronger than anyone that's AFAB even of similar weight and height. For that matter, I am not concerned at all about a trans woman being violent towards me, whether it be in a prison environment or out in the general public. It's not because trans people are inherently less violent, but since often times trans folks are afraid of transphobic violence, we are less likely to act out in fear of our actions inciting this sort of behavior as this often involves much more than one person due to how wide-spread transphobia is. Overall in general, trans individuals have more to fear than cis individuals, and if anything the inmate we're discussing here is a lot more likely to be a victim of violence in prison than any cis woman due to being transgender. Within prison, she is hardly a threat to any inmates.
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whatever the hell you said to lamby
For being bi, I feel like you've got bent up internalized phobia. I want you in the community, yes I do, but you gotta change your attitude. You come across as prying and trying to check our "good gay" status at every opportunity.

Are you, a good gay?
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

Given the exclusion that comes from the LGBT's massive group, I've seen exclusion towards gays themselves based on idealogy that I've come to befriend myself.

I'll never call myself part of the LGBT again if I ever did, I have a long list of grievances towards people like this that don't belong here. The person in question is an AMAB, I say they're posing a risk to the women there because of the fact that on average men are stronger than women. It's science, you can't doubt that.

Also, I don't think I've ever used that term before. I just see a couple of eljeebeetee's in front of me that I can ask questions.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by mintdrop »

triert, i don't really understand that kind of argument because it goes for cis women too. women who are over 6' are generally stronger than those around 5'. women who are mesomorphic or muscular are stronger than those who are skinny or don't have a lot of muscle mass. should they be put in different prisons too, because they're potentially stronger?

also i think you're forgetting the amount of muscle atrophy that happens to trans women who undergo hrt and suppress their testosterone. after about 3 years of transition they're going to have more similar bodies to cis women than anything. trans women are at greater risk of violence at a men's prison than a women's one and it helps to keep them safe, but i'm questioning wether you think they deserve safety or not
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

Shouldn't there be a prison specifically for trans folk so they can avoid harassment instead?
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Prison reform is always a fun discussion.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Lamby »

the good old right wing solution

the out of sight out of mind, separate but equal, civil rights according to how much you make them wet their pants, good 'ol obstinate confederate value... segregation lol

why would a transitioned trans woman go anywhere but a women's prison? do you have a reason that comes from anything but that primitive fear of people different from you? you are straight up wasting your time being a demagogue and trying to gain some faux centrist intellectual respect when you have zero social awareness or education to get any. like you actually defined yourself with a trap fetish, which sure, nothing to do with trans people, nothing wrong.. but how tone deaf can you get? everything you post is alex jones territory or "i told u the end is neigh but uuu didn't listen" or straight up identity erasure.

pinka is pretty balanced politically and even he doesn't know what you're doing. our collective thoughts are p much your politics concerning our rights are harmful and you're probably gonna get responses based on how ludicrous and confrontational you are and how much cognitive dissonance you have. you might not believe it, but i'd love to have conversations with you and answer your questions, but it's pretty difficult when you're very vocally dismissive of what i and others are. i get it, you're naturally skeptical because of bad experiences, you feel ostracized, whatever, but you know a question like that isn't gonna make a civil environment, you have to know, right? i try to understand your positions; i really do. i've tried an academic approach, a playful approach and you still don't make sense. some trans person ruin your life or what because holy satan you just keep repeating yourself since this topic started. like r u actually ok? if a concussion is really making you like this i think you really need to see a doctor. i'm not saying you can't have different opinions but i promise no rational trans person wants to be considered a "special secondary human"
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

Triert wrote:Given the exclusion that comes from the LGBT's massive group, I've seen exclusion towards gays themselves based on idealogy that I've come to befriend myself.

I'll never call myself part of the LGBT again if I ever did, I have a long list of grievances towards people like this that don't belong here.

I'm not understanding the context here. What ideology? And what sort of people "don't belong"?

When it comes to exclusion, there is a massive issue coming from the general LGBT+ community in regards to others that are entitled to identity within LGBT+ and specified groups inside of it. I see this too often for comfort and often times I feel "not good enough" to participate in community spaces for not meeting perceived or even blatant standards.
Triert wrote:The person in question is an AMAB, I say they're posing a risk to the women there because of the fact that on average men are stronger than women. It's science, you can't doubt that.

You're forgetting how much more likely to is for a cis individual to initiate violence towards a trans individual rather than the other way around. That succeeds the AMAB vs AFAB concern.
Triert wrote:Also, I don't think I've ever used that term before. I just see a couple of eljeebeetee's in front of me that I can ask questions.
I'm not chill with this topic being treated as a Q&A where people think they can just step up and dump articles, questions, etc, in an inconsiderate tone.
Triert wrote:Shouldn't there be a prison specifically for trans folk so they can avoid harassment instead?
I'm going to dissect this.

There would be a lot of implications of society deeming that transgender and non-binary folks should be placed in a general facility.

The first thing that comes to mind is that such a facility could easily be treated as a borderline concentration camp of people that specifically want trans and non-binary folks removed from general society, like, to a much greater degree than inmates in general, as though we can't interact with cis people or otherwise integrate. I can easily see authorities of such a place being violently tranpshobic unless you want to argue that somehow there's some employment test to make sure that every employee there is not cisgender. Which, would be okay I guess but I can't see this manifesting.

Such a facility could and would generate an "othering" effect, once again, removing trans and non-binary individuals from the general society that is mostly composed of cis people. That everyone in this facility would be "other", that nobody is a man, that nobody is a woman, or both, or neither. The only way to get around this which would be massively convoluted already is to have a facility for trans men and other masculine-aligned individuals and perhaps those of technical non-alignment that would be willing to subscribe to binary male classification, another facility for trans women and other feminine-aligned individuals and perhaps those of technical non-alignment that would be willing to subscribe to binary female classification, and then lastly those of non-alignment that may possibly be masculine-aligned or feminine-aligned but aren't willing to subscribe to forced binary classification. However, due to this system which would go back to your main concern, AMAB and AFAB people could still exist within the same facility.

We also can't strictly talk about AMAB and AFAB classification as it erases intersex individuals, so where do you stand with intersex men that were assigned male at birth, intersex women that were assigned female at birth, or even transgender/non-binary individuals that are intersex?

Just, the least convoluted answer is to discourage transphobia even within prison systems and allow inmates to be transferred to a facility that best suits their gender identity, god help the non-aligned though.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Bunelody »

Felt like sharing some of my fave gays
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

"You're forgetting how much more likely to is for a cis individual to initiate violence towards a trans individual rather than the other way around. That succeeds the AMAB vs AFAB concern."

I think this says all I need to hear from this topic anymore.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Cool, bye.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Bunelody »

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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

Really Pink, no comment on the identity politics and tribal mindset here? It's this kind of text and belief that helps the right wing stay in power more than anything else.

Also Lamby, wanting respect or that kind of view for me from other people here isn't close to what I want at all. But if this topic can't answer a few simple questions then all that makes me is a Guinea pig among hamsters.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Lamby »

i mean it did answer your questions, you just couldn't get anyone to affirm your narrative or take you seriously, as always

any other krazy kwestions i can help u with

the transwoman mind boggles
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

"Let's say my crime was a non-physical one, I don't know much about canada but I can rest this point if someone can show me they keep those two kinds of inmates separate."

No respect, no answers, I understand how that works.

But if people here don't respect anyone who doesn't consider their identity valid, what kind of life do all of you think you'll have by the time you're in your 50's? Yes, I have my own faults and I have a lot to apologize for. But who wants to keep up this nasty tension at all? I know I sure don't, and frankly I want what I want from all of you too. I consider us all to be one dysfunctional family, we all have our own issues to apologize for, not just me alone.

But if it's too early to talk about burying any sort of hatchet, I can deal with that too. But try and have more balls than posting the worn out "down with cis" story. I mean, we did have that transgender shoot not too long ago.
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Lamby »

what is the relevance of that quote to this topic, though?

also i don't respect people that invalidate me openly and i'm doing just fine. i'm even older than you. so idk what you mean??
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Triert »

It was left unanswered.

Yes, you are doing just fine. For the life you're living, not everyone has the same life as yours.

Oh, and Trump banned trans people from the military. I suppose that's relevant?
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Lamby »

yeah

even if someone is anti-lgtb, i don't understand the gain in doing that
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Triert wrote:Really Pink, no comment on the identity politics and tribal mindset here? It's this kind of text and belief that helps the right wing stay in power more than anything else.
You said you were done with this topic. I can't believe you lied!
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Re: LGBT+ Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

Triert wrote:"You're forgetting how much more likely to is for a cis individual to initiate violence towards a trans individual rather than the other way around. That succeeds the AMAB vs AFAB concern."

I think this says all I need to hear from this topic anymore.
I'm sorry that you're upset to hear that it's more likely for a cis individual to cause bodily harm to a trans individual out of transphobia rather than a trans individual to cause bodily harm to a cis individual out of """cisphobia""".
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Literally this.
Triert wrote:Really Pink, no comment on the identity politics and tribal mindset here? It's this kind of text and belief that helps the right wing stay in power more than anything else.

Also Lamby, wanting respect or that kind of view for me from other people here isn't close to what I want at all. But if this topic can't answer a few simple questions then all that makes me is a Guinea pig among hamsters.
What identity politics? You're the one bringing discourse into this topic. If this was actual identity politics it would be arguments from an LGBT+ individual against another LGBT+ individual over identity terms and community entitlement. None of that is going on here.

Tribal mindset? Literally what the hell are you talking about.

Third of all, what text and beliefs ""helps the right wing stay in power more than anything else""? I'm really, really sorry that I support the idea that trans people should be treated as their gender identity rather than forced into whatever classification The Cis determine.

Once again, really, really not chill with how you've hijacked this topic into your own personal Q&A of backing us up into a corner and making us listen to whatever garbage you want to spew. "Simple questions" is a really debatable phrase; I wrote you a paragraph to shoot down your question of "shouldn't t all trans people be in one facility". You're bringing identity politics into this, it's not a simple answer. "Few" is also debatable since once again, you take ever opportunity to use this as your Q&A, checking up on the "good gay" status at every moment. You aren't looking for answers to "a few simple questions", all you're doing is checking up on us whenever it's convenient for you.
Triert wrote:"Let's say my crime was a non-physical one, I don't know much about canada but I can rest this point if someone can show me they keep those two kinds of inmates separate."
Aight, here's your answer.

I don't know if any prison explicitly keeps inmates of non-violent crimes separate from other inmates. However, a trans woman in a women's facility isn't going to inherently make her anymore of a threat in comparison to cis inmates of similar crimes. Is this good enough?
Triert wrote:No respect, no answers, I understand how that works.
You have no idea how tiring it is time and time again to see your posts in this topic. I'm sorry that not every little thing gets answered. Sorry I missed a question on my good gay test. "Respect" is debatable, here you go, wanting all the respect you could ever have without any consideration of how tasteless it is for you to keep posting here with your good gay check-ups. We're sick of it. I respect you enough to respond to you in some capacity.
Triert wrote:But if people here don't respect anyone who doesn't consider their identity valid, what kind of life do all of you think you'll have by the time you're in your 50's?
Why should I respect anyone that invalidates me? If they do, they're disrespecting me. Go talk to the LGBT+ folks that are 50 and older, they exist, they still live on and they still fight assholes.

In relation to this, I'm extremely careful about who and who doesn't know that I'm trans so I don't end up finding out whether they're actually chill with trans identity or not. A professor I'm extremely close to I have chosen not to come out to because I would be heartbroken if she took it badly. So, yeah, keep in mind, I am half-way in the closet over fears like that and I will always live this life, half-way in the closet. It hurts, but I have to, in order to protect myself from the truth of other people, and maybe them knowing the truth about me would hurt them too. There's people that I wouldn't care if they felt hurt from the truth, and there's others that I would. I feel that my identity is a double-edged sword, and I have to be careful with it. Just about everyone that's LGBT+ has to live under closet circumstances to one degree or another, and sometimes in total denial. It. Hurts. People that disrespect my identity are the reason why I'm going to live with this pain for the rest of my life.
Triert wrote:Yes, I have my own faults and I have a lot to apologize for. But who wants to keep up this nasty tension at all? I know I sure don't, and frankly I want what I want from all of you too. I consider us all to be one dysfunctional family, we all have our own issues to apologize for, not just me alone.

But if it's too early to talk about burying any sort of hatchet, I can deal with that too. But try and have more balls than posting the worn out "down with cis" story. I mean, we did have that transgender shoot not too long ago.
I don't know what tension you're even talking about. If "tension" you mean us being upset with you treating this as a Q&A, well, yeah, it's gonna exist for as long as you approach this topic with that attitude.

Triert, I do unconditionally love you in some really weird way, along with most other people on this forum, but I don't love you enough to give you a hug and be like "yeah dude it's all fine, do whatever you want bro".

I'm sorry but you're literally the embodiment of the "Down with Cis" story.

If it's the incident I think you're referring to, that is a really complicated thing to talk about. I refuse to paint it as worse than the Pulse Shooting though. I don't want you turning this into "LOOK AT WHAT YOU TRANSSIES DID". Cis people, and trans people, can be violent, but trans people are always more at risk to be victims of tranpshobic violence from cis people than cis people being at risk for being victims of "revenge against transphobia" violence from a trans individual. To really explain how complicated it is to talk about that issue though, here we go.

First of all, anyone that's LGBT+ and commits a crime, anyone else that's LGBT+ then is held indirectly responsible for that crime by the general cis and straight public. Thus this crime ends up encouraging phobic actions. "If one of you are guilty, the rest of you are guilty too", this then feeds into stereotypes and stigma which are already abundant. This effect does not occur when a cis and straight person commits a crime, nobody cares that they're cis and straight. This however becomes a whole new issue if this cis and straight individual is of a minority grouping outside the LGBT+ sphere, and then this issue overlaps with concerns over an LGBT+ person if they also belong to minority grouping outside of their LGBT+ identity. The marginalized committing crimes encourages systematic oppression from those in power, that's how it is.

Second of all, it's so hard to talk about this while being considerate for the families and friends of the dead, and the surviving victims and witnesses. The trans community can't come in and at its absolute, unacceptable worst be like "it's not the shooter's fault they were suffering from transphobia!!" and neither can be the lesser evil of immediately swooping in and turning this into a transgender concern before counseling those directly affected by this (the families, friends, survivors, witnesses, etc). This happened in my area, and I'm glad that the community instead responded with consideration and taking on a more subtle supportive role of "we encourage anyone to talk to us so it never has to come to such violent ends, we're here for you".
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