This passes for music nowadays

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Triert
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This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

This is called Siren's,(One to the left is political based)(On wic's suggestion, full video with no feminist bashing) because if you hear them, you'll want to start running.
Last edited by Triert on Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Pumpkinium »

gettin real tired of the feminism ****, but like

those aren't sirens, those are wolves/dogs people, get it right
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

I sure didn't say anything about feminism in this topic

I'd say skip through the video to get to the singing if you want to avoid the guy speaking in it.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Rajikaru »

Triert wrote:I sure didn't say anything about feminism in this topic

Oh shut up, the name of the ****** video is "feminist 'music'"

Seriously stop trying to start **** and stop bringing up stupid feminist **** because it's annoying and doesn't make the site any better
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

Really, we don't have to focus on the guy speaking in the video this time. I'm saying as much.

Let's just laugh at this.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

The singing, and I use that term loosely, in the video is bad, and not in a "so bad, it's funny" way.

The kneejerk reactions on account of the word "feminism" being in the video title or being spoken by the guy who introduces the actual singing(again, I use that term loosely) are even worse. Also, I have to call hypocrisy on telling others not to start **** when you're the one who decided to bring up old **** in this thread.

For the hell of it, have a song I like that made it to at least one feminist playlist on youtube.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

I know better than to argue with these two about politics Jeff, while Nova and I might agree on certain points I can clearly see I can't do anything to change his opinion of me as I am. Uni, while I can choose to do so, I'd rather not since that's another can of old worms.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by chaobreedersmh »

I don't know what I expected. But it wasn't. That. That's just painful to listen to ugh. I feel like it can't be real cause there's no way anyone would ever think that was a good idea...
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by wic. »

Damn all I see in this topic is someone not understanding what avant garde music/performance art is. By the way, I have more "unpleasant" stuff in my own personal library.

Also try getting a vid of like.. just the performance and not some extremely biased video if you want to be taken more seriously, but that's just me.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

The latter has been done

As for the former, I imagined as much. What is the validity of Avant Garde to you wic, in my personal opinion I think it's hipster trash but it would be wrong of me to remain with that mentality without giving a chance to try more. My only reference point is from listening to the beatles, and then there's John Lennon and Yoko Ono's avant garde stuff too. Is there more to Avant Garde?
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by wic. »

Well I am hipster trash so oops.. Avant garde music is art, and just like any other form of art I try to appreciate it and appreciate the message it is trying to bring, if it is bringing a message. Some people define avant garde as having a message, a point, others define it as music which kind of pushes the borders of what we consider "music" to be. My definition is the latter, but avant garde can have a message behind it in my eyes.

The Beatles were far too poppy to be considered avant garde, even during their more psychedelic ventures. John and Yoko did do avant garde music though.

Major Organ and the Adding Machine - Water Dripping on Bread Makes Bread Not So Tasty
The Olivia Tremor Control - The Bark and Below It
Neutral Milk Hotel - Pree-Sisters Swallowing A Donkey's Eye
Neutral Milk Hotel - Rubby Bulbs/Snow Song Pt. 1 (kind of but not really)
The Olivia Tremor Control - Green Typewriters
James Chance and the Contortions - Flip Your Face

In addition to Merzbow who I listed earlier. These are examples of some avant garde musicians and pieces. Now, when most of us think of music none of these (except maybe James and the second Neutral Milk Hotel) really fit this bill. They're stretching what the definition of "music" is. Pushing it. And I like that, I appreciate that, I find artistic merit and beauty in that. So, yeah, ugly as it may sound, I consider the Sirens to be music, and I consider it to be performance art with artistic value.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Pumpkinium »

i wasnt trying to start anything, but i think you could've tried finding a better video that wasn't biased against feminists, be they good or bad

i mean i guess everyone finds something an art, for example, the trololo song by the russian guy was considered good even though it was rather strange, but it still kind of had a tune to it. correct me if im wrong because I didnt watch the entire video in the op, but it didn't seem to be going anywhere and it didn't have a specific tune or anything to me

i guess it's just as confusing as someone throwing a bunch of random colors together in no particular order, sticking it in a museum, and people stare at it like its magic

no offense, maybe there was something magical behind it, but it's really odd to see at first and might not mean anything to some people, like me, who thinks its kinda dumb
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

The Beatles were far too poppy to be considered avant garde
Spoiler:
Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9 Number 9
Forgive me, my reference point is specifically, The White Album itself. It'd be wrong to try to classify the band as they branched into a lot.

Now I took a listen to the music you gave and I can say that I love what the songs are making me feel, Siren's however makes me feel pain. On more levels than one, it's coming off as a pretentious piece only passable because of the nature of the people who support it. I have a folder ready to pull out if need be, but trying to criticize this professionally would have anyone labeled a misogynist.

Could a genuine, choir, of well singing feminists do so instead, well I sure wouldn't have made a topic about it. But this is where we're meant to differ because we can expect to reach nowhere else I feel. I don't consider it music, you do, and you just introduced me to a genre I can hope to look more of. If you remember what I said about throbbing gristle earlier, even I felt like I've been introduced already to this genre somewhat.

Also Uni, I did.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by wic. »

Oh yeahh, I forgot about Rev 9, good track, I was thinking more of an album to album basis in their discography. The White Album is good tho....

I think something that's important to remember here is that Sirens is a stage production, that runs for longer than an hour, and what is shown is only a few second snippet of an entire production. From what I could find out it bills itself as performance art.
Cooperating like a musical sextet, they scream, laugh, sing, speak and cry their way through their experiences as women in the modern Western world, with new-found joys and liberties. They’ve taken control of their lives, expression and appearance and moved on, past militant anti-male rage to the hope that men can be just as feminist as they are.
http://www.theatreroyal.com/whats-on/2014/sirens-may/

For review:

Feminism = gender equality
Men's rights = gender equality
Misandry/Misogyny =/= gender equality
Neither should block the other

So first off what was shown was a tiny snippet of a piece of performance art that was taken out of context of its larger whole. It's a little unfair to just kind of judge it as "music" when it's performance art, and the performance and context mean a lot in terms of understanding a piece of art and it's meaning.

Plus, I actually took the time to find details about them, and they reeeeally don't sound like the feminists you hate. They definitely don't sound like misandrists if they don't endorse anti-male rage. And honestly it makes me really wonder why people have a problem with it. Like in that video, the first one you posted. It doesn't seem that man bothered to look into what it was, what it was about, or their message, and instead just saw "feminist" and had a knee jerk reaction to it, and that's.. Really pathetic in my mind. It's extremely pathetic to me when ANYONE will just blindly hate something because they don't actually look into it. (Note: hate as in bash, not hate in terms of not appreciating the art)

I support what they do. I mean, they aren't really hurting anyone at all, and their message doesn't seem to be toxic. Don't blindly hate ****, goes for anything, hate begets hate, and hate's ugly.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

Here's the video used to promote this, on another end, they've closed discussion. Something that has become too common when it comes to modern feminist related media. (Anita, the mass deletion and censorship of comments in her ABC interview video, etc)

But as far as actually promoting man hatred? Yeah, you're just about right there. They're just tearing apart a doll in the video, no context given, unlike the SCUM Manifesto video advertisement (Warning, made to look like a snuff video) in Sweden. They're polar opposites as far as who or what they hate, and I imagine the doll smashing is just something symbolic about patriarchy or something, but to believe one exists in the first world, well, enough third world focused feminists, and equity feminists here in the US have called them out on such.

But to have this sort of reaction to them after they've shown they're on the same page as censorship feminists, I think I'll keep this topic open for other people to judge whether or not this kind of music is for them. That's really the worst thing I can do for these people.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by wic. »

Okay I literally looked at the video and it's not comment disabled, just literally had no comments. So. They aren't "censorship feminists". So. I don't even know how to properly react to that. I'll let that speak for itself. Also you keep bringing up things that have literally nothing to do with the topic at hand. The SCUM video literally had nothing to do with the Sirens. You're really transparent dude.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

Here's a screenshot

I brought up SCUM to show just how NOT extremist this group is in relation to the SCUM advertisement, an example of radical feminism. But in regards to censorship, perhaps I should have left out the SCUM video entirely since Sirens isn't doing so well in letting people speak their opinions of the video. This is particularly bad because of how much of a trend this has become.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by wic. »

Haha no triert. The Vimeo that you posted was what you said was comment disabled. It was uploaded by the Sirens. It was not comment disabled. The performance of the Sirens was uploaded by BBC, noooot the Sirens. Obviously the Sirens allow open discussion, BBC controls their own media.

Seriously just admit you ****** up. This is getting desperate and embarrassing.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Triert »

Okay then, I was unclear as to which video you referred to so yes it was my mistake in that end. To be specific, the theater group, not the people behind Sirens are allowing discussion, but no one but the BBC is really censoring here so yeah, my bad.

In that case, I hold no negative opinion over their brand of feminism, instead their music is to be questioned. Mind you, I said "on another end" in regards to the bcc video, but that was false too as you've said.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Enzo03 »

Well it certainly passes for music in the classical "organized sound in time" sense.

I prefer "presentative organized sound in time" for my definition of music, with presentative meaning that there are feelings or ideas being presented through the piece.

This lets me fail this sort of music on an objective level for failing to effectively present its intended ideas.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

For some reason, Enzo's post reminded me of the one type of music I heard in my Music appreciation class that I outright didn't like.

I'm talking about Gregorian Chant a style pioneered by Medieval Monks in the Catholic Church and some of the oldest music that has survived into the modern day. This stuff predates the likes of Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart by nearly as much, if not more, than those great composers predate the modern day.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Enzo03 »

I took a musical appreciation class (or something of that sort) when I was in college as well. Gregorian Chants were the first sort we covered but our coverage was brief.
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Re: This passes for music nowadays

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

^Yeah, first and brief on my end as well. First because the class went in rough chronological order, and brief probably because there isn't much to study as far as music is concerned(they would probably get more attention if they came up in a class on theology, what with them being one of the oldest forms of Church music). We spent most of the course focused on Baroque, Classical, and Romantic orchestral music with brief units on renaissance and modern music(in this context, pretty much anything of the 20th Century). For those wondering, Bach is a Baroque Composer, Mozart is a Classical Composer, and Beethoven was sort of in the transition between the Classical and Romantic, though all three eras are lumped under the umbrella of Classical in the minds of most people who don't pay attention to music history, and even myself can't remember much about what distinguishes the eras other than the Harpsichord being a dead give away that the composition is either Baroque or trying to emulate Baroque and the Piano being an invention of the Classical era.
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