Legends are broken

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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jack Augustine »

I have similar problems; my best friend tends to use a lot of Legendary Pokemon in his wifi battling team. I think the latest was Ho-oh/Dialga/Articuno/Groudon/Reshiram/Lucario. He's also been known to use teams like...

Dialga/Zekrom/Genesect/Zygarde/Yveltal/Reshiram
Kyurem/Yveltal/Reshiram/Mewtwo X/Dialga/Zygarde
Mewtwo (X)/Moltres/Lugia/Dialga/Arceus (Draco Plate)/Giratina (Origin)

This is latest to earliest, so I eventually needed to pick up more and more Legendaries to counter him... and win. As I did, he gained strength even more.

It's like he takes pleasure in beating me...



But I'd love to go back to when I had only Zapdos and Mewtwo Y, and used Vaporeon, Glaceon, Flareon, and Lucario well enough to bring down most of his team before falling myself.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Crash32 »

Who wouldn't take pleasure in beating you? In pokèmon?
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

Jack Augustine wrote:This is latest to earliest, so I eventually needed to pick up more and more Legendaries to counter him... and win. As I did, he gained strength even more.
No need to, my Azumarill one-shot an Yveltal with one play rough while my Mega Lucario one-shot Xerneas with one flash cannon. Legendaries really aren't as strong as people say they are, they just have some good signature moves and really good stats all-around.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Rajikaru »

The key to defeating Legendaries is to having good counters. As it stands, Mewtwo, Yveltal, and Xerneas are the only actually legendary threats, Xerneas is floored by a stab x2 move, such as Bullet Punch by Mega Scizor (possibly), Yveltal is weak to Fairy, Rock, and Electric moves, so pokemon such as Jolteon, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Ampharos, and even Nidoking can tear it to shreds, and Mewtwo is just a pain in the ass. A good team will have coverage for every type under the sun, with a core that is weak to a small or more preferably nonexistent group of Pokemon.


Not to mention most Legendary tier legendaries are banned in Battle Spots. If only such were true in the April Friendlies, the amount of times I was floored by an unexpected Xerneas, or came this close to beating a full Legendary team, would require around 5 20-sided dice to count.

THis is all assuming the pokemon in question for both sides are EV trained, have correct IVs, correct natures, and so on.

Honestly, pokemon such as Scolipede, Blaziken, and Destiny Bond Gengar are far more infuriating to me.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

What I don't quite understand is why so many Legendaries are banned to uber tier, while pokemon such as mega gengar/khan/blaziken could easily take them down as quick as they can take down OU tier pokes. People seem to more likely run Blaziken and a certain mega mentioned rather than actual legendaries at this rate.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Rajikaru »

I'm guessing because the Legendaries have such high stat numbers (and of course their unique super-powerful moves) that they wouldn't be fair in lower tiers. For example, literally everybody that's anybody uses Geomancy Xerneas with Power Herb. Plus, only a few legendaries are actually in Ubers - namely the two XY Mascots, Zygarde, just about every different type of Arceus, the Hoenn trio, and Lugia. Lately lots of non-legendaries have actually been getting into Ubers, which is weird, but makes sense. I really just wish that Game Freak or whoever's currently working on Pokemon would add some sort of tiers like from Smogon so I don't have to constantly go up against annoying Blazikens, Destiny Bond Gengars, and double-flinch Mega Kangaskhans.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

I've seen Yveltal more often than Blaziken, Gengar and Kangaskhan though. The thing is that Smogon isn't a rule, they are a metagame, and no one is forced to listen to it (next to that some people feel forced to because it's popular and people hate you if you don't). Sure, some tier battle modes would be cool (as OPTION), but it shouldn't be a rule. And who would make those rules anyway? I doubt gamefreak would literally give smogon authority to have their metagame become an option to play in. But honestly, if you can't win against some pokes without using specific unofficial counters, then you can't really play the game at all. Sure, you'll lose a bunch of times, but you can still win.

And well I get their stats are higher, that's an obvious answer, but they just don't seem to cut it as actual ubers. Sure, Zapdos and such aren't in uber, but their stats are still about psuedo-legend high, and still can't do **** in battles. Heck, some are even in UU tier (articuno?). They are BOSS in those tiers though. Legendaries in UU tiers usually win the battle easily, so that's kind of ridiculous.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jack Augustine »

The thing is, my Legendaries are trained to counter those of their own type; for example, Flash Cannon on my Xerneas or Shadow Ball on Mewtwo.

But when it starts getting ridiculous is when something like Zygarde starts pulling out ExtremeSpeed.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Zygarde is one of the weaker Gen VI legendaries :/
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

^Which isn't saying much considering G6 has the smallest roster of Legendaries since G2(Though to be completely honest, its kind of ridiculous how many legendaries were added in G3-5).

Also, I too would like in-game tiering, though it would probably be based on more cut and dry criteria than on any actual analysis like Smogon's metagame.

Still, I could see something like the following be implemented in future games:
Rulesets:
Casual: Normal pvP matches, no restrictions.
Tournament Style: Enforces the following clauses: Species, Item, Sleep, Freeze, and any other common restrictions of the like.
Custom: Allows the clauses from Tournament style to be turn on/off individually.

Tiers:
Little: Allows mons that are unevolved but can evolve. Normalizes level to 5 and EVs to 0.
Pika: Bans all Legendaris, Any mon that evolves though a method other than leveling or happiness, and any mon whose minimum evolution level is above 25. Normalizes level to 25 and caps EVs at 100 per stat and 256 total.
Poke: Bans Box and Event Legends, other Legends with the same or higher base stats, and any mon whose minimum evolution level exceeds 50. Normalizes level to 50 and has no restrictions on EVs.
Prime: All mons are allowed. Level is normalized to 100 nd there are no EV restrictions.
Custom: Create custom alowed lists based on criteria such as evolution status/method/minimum level, hieght and weight, Base Stat Total, etcetera.

Not perfect, but probably more realitic than any fan-made Meta-game getting official standing.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Rajikaru »

Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:^Which isn't saying much considering G6 has the smallest roster of Legendaries since G2(Though to be completely honest, its kind of ridiculous how many legendaries were added in G3-5).
Are we counting different forms for Deoxys? If not, Gen III actually has less legendaries than Gen II.

Though I do like your idea for tiers, even if I wouldn't dare go near the Pika or other tiers other than competitive, it'd be a nice way for newer battlers that aren't in the competitive scene to battle with their favorite pokemon without being steamrolled.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

^If we count Deoxys forms separately, G3 had more than G1 and G2 combined.

G1: Bird Trio, Mew Duo, 5 total.
G2: Beast Trio, Bird Duo, Celebi 6 total.
G3: Regi Trio, Weather Trio, Lati Duo, Deoxys, Jirachi,10 total(and I feel like I am forgetting someone)
G4: Regigigas, Lake Trio, Creation Trio, Manaphy Duo, Lunar Duo, Heatran, Arceus, Shaymin, 14 Total
G5: Musketeer Quartet, Djinn Trio, Tao Trio, Meloetta, Victini, 12 total(and I still feel like I am forgetting someone).
G6: XY Trio, one confirmed event legend, and 2 leaked event legends, 6 total.

Though I suppose G6 still has quite a lot of legendaries considering it has the smallest roster of new mons of any generation.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

EvilPinkamina wrote:Zygarde is one of the weaker Gen VI legendaries :/
Pretty ironic since it's ability suggests it's a counter to the XY signature legends. People think Zygarde will get a mega stone because it makes no sense that Zygarde is still so much weaker than the XY signature legends.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jack Augustine »

Yeah; Aura Break reverses ANY Aural abilities.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by EvilPinkamina »

Its not really that strong except for somewhat in ubers, and even then it doesn't have amazing stats like most ubers.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

My point is that, even with the aurbreak ability, Zygarde is not really any stronger than the XY signature legends, in my opinion. Sure, it shuts down Xerneas's Moonblast quite good, but after one power herb geomancy, Xerneas laughs in Zygarde's face.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer »

I would say Zygard getting a Mega evo exclusive to G6's third version is very likely, especially with the pattern established by the last two box trios(Giratina is supposed to balance out Palkia and Dialga, but only really accomplishes that from an in-game perspective when in Origin form; Kyurem is suppose to be the original Dragon from which Zekrom and Reshiram were formed, but is the weakest of the trio unless it fuses with one of the other(though there should also be a complete Kyurem formed by all three merging)). If Gamefreak pulls another B2W2, I could even see Zygard getting two mega forms.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

Maybe a combination of all of them to make the actual 3D pokémon.

I honestly have no idea what happened in b/w2.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Snowy »

I thought this said legs are broken.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by EvilPinkamina »

If we're talking about X2/Y2 (theoretically) then please give normal trainers 3D battle models too (or at least the elite four + chmp)
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by livig. »

Truthfully, it's not a bad thing to use legendaries in battle. There are some people who claim, "Whoever uses legendaries is a noob! Learn how to play!". In some context, it is annoying to go on WiFi and battle a team full of Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde (yes, I've been there myself). As a casual player, I believe that it is okay to use any Pokémon, no matter if it is uber or not. Just try to win with your favorites. That's a true trainer.
Just, please, please, PLEASE no full teams of legendaries.
That's not personalizing.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by EvilPinkamina »

N- n- n- necro'd.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by livig. »

^ are you implying that I'm beating a dead corpse?
I swear, people can't even post their own opinions anymore.
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Crash32 »

nice necro, would read said necro again
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(incoming mini-mod warning: necro is technically a synonym for bump - you posted in a thread that hasn't been posted in for over 5 months with no good reason, which is against the site rules)
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Re: Legends are broken

Post by Tobi »

I don't see how it's been bumped for no reason, it's an ontopic post on a discussion topic. I don't think that matters at all, since, if someone wanted to discuss this, they'd have to create a new topic, which is no solution either. Bumping it is probably the best.

Also why mini-modding is against the rules.
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