Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

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Crazo3077
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Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Crazo3077 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:43 pm

I started casually doing some breeding tests using my friend's Dreamcast. I only had a Normal Chao (N), a Black Chao (B), a Silver Chao (S), and a Gold Chao (G), and used four VMUs to breed them. These are the results:

N+B
N: 3
B: 3

N+G
N: 6
G: 6

N+S
N: 3
S: 8

S+G
N: 3
G: 9
S: 3

B+S
N: 5
B: 6
S: 6
O: 3

B+G
N: 4
B: 9
G: 3
C: 2

From these results, which are barely even qualifying tests, a few patterns can be noticed.
  • Any time a Normal Chao breeds, the results are likely 50/50, being either the Normal Chao or the other breed.
  • When Silver Chao and Gold Chao breed, there is a chance of them having a Normal Chao.
  • When a Silver Chao or Gold Chao breeds with a Black Chao, they can result in unique combinations, which I labeled as Onyx Chao (O) and Copper Chao (C) for convenience.
The most I tested any combination was twenty times, and as you can see, I barely tested breeding with the Normal Chao. I also did not have the time to test if these Chao carry the genes of their parents. I may find a chance to test these again, but if anyone else has a Dreamcast and four VMUs, it isn't difficult to test.
Last edited by Crazo3077 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Mamkute » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Crazo, I love you.
Anyway, I have always wanted to do DreamCast tests, but I have no access to such a thing. Thus leading to my secret desire to get a Dream Cast (and I also don't know of any other games on it, but Sonic is enough.)
My opinions:
B+S cross is listed twice (I assume the second one is meant to be B+G)
S+G has weird results, but I would assume it is 33/33/33 for each, or at least Gold and Silver have the same rate, and Normal may have something different.
Onyx and Copper chao are likely more rare than the other options, from the preliminary data, as well as what would make sense for game developers to make rarer than others.

If there is anything I can do with helping DC testing (other than actual in game testing) I will gladly help.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Palmpoa Commander » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:00 am

I suggest using CHANKA for dreamcast emulation, its what i've been using for breeding figures.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Crazo3077 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:07 am

The concern I have with testing through emulation is my inexperience with whether or not VMU emulators can connect for breeding, and then if those same VMU files can be put in as memory card slots on the Dreamcast emulator. They probably can, but it seems too tedious, and there is something strangely endearing about having four VMUs on my lap and popping them in and out. It gave me quite the chance to play Chao Adventure, which revealed that the Tiny Chao Garden uses similar shapes with more complex graphics.

I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to test again, since I've been hesitant to actually put money down onto my own Dreamcast, out of fears for it needing repair, but if anyone else wants to try using emulation, I would like to see how their results compare to mine. I'm also curious if there are rare variants when breeding the Normal Chao with the other breeds. I was not able to test those enough, since I wanted to hit a minimum of twenty eggs for the Black Chao with the Jewel Chao.

I'm also hoping I can find a way to hook up a Dreamcast to the web, so I can see if we can access the fake Dreamcast Black Market or not.

EDIT:
Specifically the [ur=http://dricas.sonicretro.org/sonic2/en/ ... rket.htmll]mock Black Market supplied by sonicretro.org[/url], because when accessing the page, all the "Trade" buttons yield negative results. Otherwise, I have no idea how we would access the other Jewel Chao for testing.
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あぼーん!

Post by Palmpoa Commander » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:34 pm

あぼーん!
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by KaneTheChao » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:54 am

Sorry for going off topic a bit, but I've never heard of a copper chao. Is this just a jewel chao, but brown?
(Again, sorry for going off-topic)
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:49 am

^The Dreamcast versions of the Chao had significantly different breeding mechanics, which aren't nearly as well documented as those on Gamecube and PC. In fact, this thread might represent the most in-depth research into the DC Breeding mechanics that has been publish. Persumably, Copper is just a placeholder name until a better understanding of the mechanics can be developed.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Mamkute » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:15 am

To put in Bio terms, the Copper chao, as well as Onyx, is a display of codominance or incomplete dominance, in which both genes are active, producing an intermediate appearing result (i.e. Red and White flower producing a pink flower, although this isn't always the case in species.) This is never a thing in the GC games, so I find that aspect interesting. This is compared to the GC, where the closest genetic description would be normal dominance systems, and with equally dominant colors being randomly decided which is apparent (also not really a real world thing.)

Although I doubt when programming the genetic system for the chao, the creators had in mind real world genetics systems.
And other results provided by Crazo show a complete departure from just about anything real world, with Silver+Gold producing Normal.

In terms of the appearance, although I haven't really seen one, I would guess a copper chao is a brown-ish (as an in between of gold and dark) jewel, as you guessed, and an onyx is similar to the onyx chao in the GC games. Of course, I could be pretty wrong.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Crazo3077 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:38 am

To clarify, the Gold Chao in Sonic Adventure for Dreamcast is a much lighter color, almost described as a Yellow Jewel Chao. The Copper Chao better resembles the Gold Chao in all other versions, and can be well described as a Brown Jewel Chao. This may not be entirely consistent, but it is a decent way to portray it. The Silver to Onyx comparison demonstrates it.

I'm currently torn between two theories on the genetics of Sonic Adventure. Version 1 is that Gold Chao and Silver Chao are born with half their gene and half Normal gene, and that if the Normal gene is replaced with the Black gene, it causes the Copper Chao and Onyx Chao. Version 2 is that Color and Jewel are two separate variables, but there is only one variable rather than two. The latter works if there is no inheritance, which is something I definitely want t test for next.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Mamkute » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:30 am

So if color and jewel were separate variables, the jewel chao would have to be heterozygous for Gold/Silver and Not Jewel, right?(Assuming it is like GC in Jewel regards.) Otherwise there wouldn't be a way for Silver:Gold to result in a Normal chao. And that seems kind of weird, to have the "pure" chao obtained to be automatically heterozygous.
Then again, weird things can happen.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Crazo3077 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:09 pm

I'll likely start with new Chao next time I test, but it is also possible that this version accounts for mutation, so when a Gold Chao and a Silver Chao mate, there is a chance at getting neither, and under the Jewel coating is Normal coloring, like they are in the Gamecube version.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Tsui » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:45 pm

I think I only have one or two VMUs with screens, the others are made by some third party. I also never figured out how to work the Chao minigame...
Are multiple VMUs necessary for breeding, or can you wait for them to mate on their own like you can in SA2 and SADX? I'm also curious if there are any differences between the Japanese and International versions of the game, even if minimal.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by Crazo3077 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:00 am

I assume the normal wait time still applies, but using the VMU there are no wait time at all. That makes it convenient for mass breeding. My only concern though is that we won't be able to test many breeds, since the Black Market breeds are assumed to be inaccessible, since the original Black Market site is down. That is, unless someone still has the files, and knows how to transfer them to a Dreamcast.
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Re: Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Breeding Test

Post by UltimaNumber255 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:21 pm

One thing I would like to see is video evidence of the whole process of breeding if available, including the actual mating in the VMUs, as there doesn't seem to be any on my findings. If we could see the VMU linkup mating, not only will we know the proof 100%, we could see what the process looks like, sprites and everything. Apologies if that's asking too much.
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