"Sonic was never good"

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"Sonic was never good"

Post by Triert » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:45 am

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In this topic we talk to each other about Sonic's legacy. I can still enjoy SA1 and SA2, and heroes, put me with Shadow The Hedgehog and I can enjoy it too.

But then I stopped buying sonic games around 06 came out and man did I dodge a bullet there. I got Sonic Mania and got the golden ending there too and thoroughly enjoyed myself.

But I've never been privvy to the franchises faults, and I will say that what people here would consider unplayable today can be potentially stupid if they compare it to modern day games being filled with bugs and glitches. By that standard the games have aged well.

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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Rajikaru » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:50 pm

2D Sonic is good. DC era Sonic is fine. Colors/Generations Sonic is fine. Everything else is objectively awful.


Next topic attempt please, this topic has been discussed to death.

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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Nano » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:39 pm

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With the release of Sonic Forces, I've come to realize that the entirety of SEGA of America needs to be fired. They don't know how to run an IP like Sonic, they don't know how to make a fun and engaging story, and probably above all they lack any sort of passion. Sonic may have been pretty average coming into mordern, but it was an average with untapped potential and passion put into it, stuff where you could see something about to burst from the cracks in the next game. Then we got Sonic Colors and everything went away for baldy mcnosehair.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by chaoadventures » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:51 am

Nano wrote:I've come to realize that the entirety of SEGA of America needs to be fired. They don't know how to run an IP like Sonic, they don't know how to make a fun and engaging story
I have no concern for the rest of this subject of this topic, but correct me if I'm wrong but I think SEGA of Japan is responsible for at least most of Forces' story;
please direct your current story complaints to them.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Nano » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:38 am

Matoko Goya wrote the scenario for forces and Ken Pontac and Warren Graff rewrote the english script with guidance from Shun Nakamura.

Basically, SEGA of Japan made the plot for the story, while SEGA of America was responsible for writing the script for the English version of the game. This is very obvious when you compare the English and Japanese script with one another. In some parts of the story, the game has completely different lines. It doesn't necessarily make it a different game, but it completely changes how the plot is conveyed and how much of it is conveyed. If you're interested, a full retranslation of the Japanese script is coming soon that I'd be more than happy to link.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Sable » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:27 am

one day i'm gonna make a 19 hour video dismantling the idea that any sonic game ever made was bad
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Mamkute » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:05 am

The spouting that I see online of people saying Sonic was never good is infuriating, I agree so much Triert. People complain about the game just hitting you too fast, and they are absolutely missing the point of Genesis Sonic.


The sad thing with Forces is that it really goes to show the people making Sonic games think the fans are wrong for not liking whatever weird stuff they are putting out, and instead being way more hyped for Mania.

Sable wrote:one day i'm gonna make a 19 hour video dismantling the idea that any sonic game ever made was bad
I'd watch it.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Lamby » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:40 pm

wouldn't say it's never good, but i would say Sonic games never pass average
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Nano » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:48 pm

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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by azureprism » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:47 am

You're right about how some of those changes, even the small ones, can convey a lot of different meanings. They probably should have aimed to get a little more accurate between languages, and if they're doing it stop translating from one language and then into another for every language the game gets released in. I think I've heard somewhere of a few Sonic games that had their original script translated into one language, but then re-translated with that new version then used in the source language?

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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by chaoadventures » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:57 am

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not enough things changed personally

the core of the important scenes, "What's the secret of your power", "Fear and then pain", "Boom! The end!", for example.

still too many loose ends and undeveloped plot points

My list of loose ends:
Spoiler:
- Infinite's ability to make the virtual reality Zavok act like the real one but the Shadow copy was completely soulless.

- What exactly is up with the Phantom Ruby Prototypes?

- Why is Classic's relevance so limited when it could be used so much more?

- Why did they resolve Null Space in about 5 seconds?

- haha why did they suddenly add that whole thing about friendship and togetherness and all that to the game

- Where did Omega come from if Tails couldn't fix him and was at the battlefield?

- No joke what actually happened to Infinite after the game?

- Was Eggman inside the final phase of the last boss or did it become sentient?

Only thing that I felt was fixed was Silver's statement about how Tails was in a state of despair after Sonic was said to have died, when it was just said that he was missing.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Nano » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:34 am

Objectively the plot and tempo of the story wouldn't change.

What comes into play here are the little things and details changed transitioning from event to event as well as how the events played out as a whole during main scenes. It's all the little subtle ways the game behaves. Ultimately the differences aren't going to, say, completely change events but rather the tone of said events.

A good example of this would be lost world's script, and how it was so poorly received by the japanese localization team that they completely rewrote it to make it more serious and like past sonic titles. Your plot is still going to be conveyed, but its tone and whatnot changes completely.

I guess it's subjective, but the English script for this game reeked of Sonic Colors garbage writing. They just seemed to hold back a bit more this time around.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by eblu » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:55 am

We can all at least agree that the soundtrack is just as we truly imagined it
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by chaoadventures » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:25 am

excuse me eblu but I imagined the soundtrack as network terminal 1 and 2
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:30 pm

In all fairness, the Sonic games having subpar writing is one of the few things most of the fragmented Sonic fanbase has been able to agree on since SA1 was originally released for Dreamcast and the only game I can recall being praised for having a story more complex than S3K's was Sonic Battle. As much as Generations is held on a pedestal as the gold standard for 3D Sonic, I can't remember anyone complimenting its story.
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Re: "Sonic was never good"

Post by Nano » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:19 pm

Considering Generations was also made by the people who wrote Sonic Colors, I think that's probably where some of its greatest strength was. Having little to no story with a team that's awful with storytelling made it a powerhouse not bogged down by a shoehorned in story.
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