Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

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Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:54 pm

Hello everyone!

I'm a 3D modeller. I played SA2B when it came out on the Gamecube and it was my favourite game. When I grew a bit older and got a Wii then X-Box, I played the newer Sonic Games and was really dissapointed. Heroes was pretty much the only exception, and Unleashed had a certain charm to it. I've played SA:DX and really enjoyed it too!

But what I've always longed for is Sonic Adventure 3. I was wondering, would anyone like to help me try and make it a reality? The scripting for it isn't too hard, and having made models for other indie games I know some coders.

Please, ask any questions you like and share any comments (negative AND positive) about this.
Cheers,

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by Rajikaru » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:51 pm

Show us some of your models.

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:56 pm


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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by chaoadventures » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:31 pm

If I had anything to do with about the creation of SA3, here's what I would say.

SA2 styled levels.(But not exactly the same, then it wouldn't be SA3.)
Add Adventure Fields from SA1 back in.
Add Chao Gardens.

Yeah, that's about it.

But I can't offer anything for actually making it, I can't code or model, I'm still new to 3D animation, and I don't know if I can do any voices.

Actually, now that I think about it, what would you use to code this?
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by Rajikaru » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:38 pm

AtomikBlast wrote:Here are a few:

https://samdrowe.carbonmade.com/projects/5918235
Wow, those are really impressive. Are you taking modelling classes at all?

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:26 pm

Nova! wrote:
AtomikBlast wrote:Here are a few:

https://samdrowe.carbonmade.com/projects/5918235
Wow, those are really impressive. Are you taking modelling classes at all?

No, actually! I'm self taught.
chaoadventures wrote:If I had anything to do with about the creation of SA3, here's what I would say.

SA2 styled levels.(But not exactly the same, then it wouldn't be SA3.)
Add Adventure Fields from SA1 back in.
Add Chao Gardens.

Yeah, that's about it.

But I can't offer anything for actually making it, I can't code or model, I'm still new to 3D animation, and I don't know if I can do any voices.

Actually, now that I think about it, what would you use to code this?
I really want to take the best of both SA and SA2 and try and exclude or get rid of the faults of each. Ideally there would be adventure fields, and six distinct game modes, with a hero select screen with various missions like SA. The plots would intertwine rather than, like in SA2, you playing one (technically two) storyline with several characters, you'd play "the same" storyline six times.
-Sonic: Speedy missions, 'typical' levels.
-Tails: SA style speedy missions but using flying and less speed. Some puzzle solving
-Knuckles: Treasure hunt style missions with a tiny bit of stealth incorporated (nothing fancy).
-Rouge the Bat: Treasure hunt style missions, much faster paced than Knuckles since she's a spy/secret agent for G.U.N so has fittingly bombastic missions. A bit more stealth than Knuckles.
-Shadow: Speed missions as well, though different from Sonics (I've yet to decide how!)
-Eggman: TPS like in SA2 but far, far, better. Some flying missions like SA.

The story would pick up where SA2 left off, with Shadow plummeting to what we can only assume is his death. He's been torn out of his super form. But when he lands, he survives and is picked up by the military/government who lock him up in a hidden bunker with a lab and perform tests on him. A few years later, a hydrogen bomb is dropped near the facility causing a maximum Richter-scale earthquake, destroying the facility. Shadow is freed from his cage and needs to escape, which is the very first mission reminiscent of the crumbling ARK in the last stages of SA2.

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by chaoadventures » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:52 pm

Except (If I remember correctly), when Shadow fell from the ARK, Eggman caught him after he fell, which is why he was in a stasis tube at the beginning of Sonic Heroes,
and how Eggman was able to make android versions of him.

Also, I don't think there was a very big time gap between SA2 and Heroes.

I could be wrong though, I don't remember Heroes very well and never played Shadow the Hedgehog for more than a few seconds.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:56 pm

Doesn't have to follow the same continuity as those games, it's not official canon anyway.

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by chaoadventures » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:05 pm

Ah. Wasn't sure if you we trying to fit it into the normal canon or if this was it's own branching off from SA2.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:07 pm

chaoadventures wrote:Ah. Wasn't sure if you we trying to fit it into the normal canon or if this was it's own branching off from SA2.
It's own thing, ignoring all that happened afterwards. Sonic '06 (despite me defending certain points of it! I think it's become one of those games it's cool to hate) really soured Sonic for me and the latest ones haven't been very good. The very latest one seemed catastrophic, with Knuckles being a 6 foot tall wrestler and Sonic having bandages and a silly hat.

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by chaoadventures » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:28 pm

it's a scarf. Rise of Lyric was terrible, and the redesigns are weird, but at least the TV show is funny and it's an alternate universe.

I liked the ideas '06 dropped down too, but glitches and gameplay overshadowed them for me.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by AtomikBlast » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:50 pm

Here's a very basic sonic model I made, for the head I only slightly modified the SA2B head (I will replace i t with my own later on), the rest of the body is completely made by me from scratch.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... -sonic.png

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by CFood » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:11 pm

One thing about Sonic Adventure 3 stages, don't make them like Sonic Adventure 1.

Everyone went through the same areas and yeah that was a cool idea, it made some stages really broken for some characters. Like Lost World as Knuckles there's a glitched wall that you punch at it just right you end up where Sonic is supposed to continue through and you finish the stage without any M.E. pieces. I loved and hated that at the same time. Well it helped me do the Knuckles timed mission really easily for that so I liked that part, but it just kinda sucked the fun outta what I'm supposed to do. Or how E-102 was broken in Final Egg, but every other level he did was way more difficult. Final Egg seemed to be more tailored to E-102's gameplay and his section was just kinda pasted in there for Sonic and the rest and just seemed awkward and outta place. I could go on about these levels being perfect for one but insane for another or broken for another.

Adventure 1 style stages are cool, just give everyone their own stage like Adventure 2.

Also bring back Big. Gotta appease the meme lords, mate.

Actually now that I think about it, both Knuckles and Rouge had Death Chamber/Egg Quarters which were more or less the same stage but they could do that cause they're the same play style. But that's like the exception, when they have the same playstyle it's okay to do this.

Sonic 06 and Sonic Heroes got away with it because everyone was essentially the same. (Despite the reception and bugs of 06, I look at things it did right because it'd be a shame to waste such good ideas and such from a rushed mess)
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:45 pm

Even accross character types, SA2 reused a lot of assets between different levels. Tails and Shadow both have stages that remind one of the Golden gate Bridge, nearly everyone has a level set in or around Eggman's Desert base, Everyone has a level set in or around the Ark, etc. In fact, best I can remember, Aquatic Mine and Pumpkin Hill are the only levels that bare no resemblance to another.

Though, if you could put together a team that could produce a fangame that would live up to everyone's expectations for SA3, you'd probably be better off making something original that you could actually profit off of.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by chaoadventures » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:09 am

^Pumpkin Hill uses the same assets as Sky Rail. Sky Rail just happens during the day instead of night. And the rails.
CFood wrote: Like Lost World as Knuckles there's a glitched wall that you punch at it just right you end up where Sonic is supposed to continue through and you finish the stage without any M.E. pieces. I loved and hated that at the same time. Well it helped me do the Knuckles timed mission really easily for that so I liked that part, but it just kinda sucked the fun outta what I'm supposed to do. Or how E-102 was broken in Final Egg
Then don't do it? If you don't want to use a glitch just don't use it.

As for Gamma, it's his first level and you can literally hear Eggman explaining your goal and that you have a time limit. It's supposed to be easy.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by CFood » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:41 am

True enough. But my point still stands, in Adventure 2 they have similar themed stages, but they're not the same layout. The only ones I'd say are the nearly the same in layout as well are Knuckles and Rouge infiltrating the base. In Adventure 1 it's literally the same thing entirely, not necessarily the whole thing, but the parts of the levels that are shared are completely the same.

And you are right about that, but those were just a couple examples, I feel like Tails was entirely broken except for Casinopolis and the first half of Windy Valley. Also the boarding stages weren't broken but I wasn't really considering those.

I loved the game but that's my personal gripe with it, is these levels weren't really designed for every character in mind that they made them for. That's where Adventure 2 did better when they just made a complete different stage it just looked similar in feel but it was tailored to each individual character.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by KeatonLabs » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:38 pm

CFood wrote:
I loved the game but that's my personal gripe with it, is these levels weren't really designed for every character in mind that they made them for. That's where Adventure 2 did better when they just made a complete different stage it just looked similar in feel but it was tailored to each individual character.
I disagree, i disagree almost entirely. I dont mind how SA1 reuses levels because the levels aren't built for one single character in mind with a few exceptions, they're designed to accomodate all who go through them. And they can get away with it because half of the cast plays like sonic does.

Red mountain for example is my favorite stage in the game and Knuckles and sonic both go through it but HOW they do is so very dfferent that it doesnt bother me. Sonic follows a linear path to the insides while knuckles explores the entire area, even areas sonic doesnt see.

Same goes for casinoapolis, sonic deals with pinball and the sewers, tails just races through the sewers, and knuckles explores the areas, again, those two can't.

Even taking into account the other characters their sections of levels are designed with them in mind. Hot shelter is made literally exactly for amy, big has the sectioned off fishing sections, and GAMMA for the most part shares with sonic with skme changes to accommodate where necessary. Even with gamma it works because he's not like the sa2 mechs, his control is much closer to sonics.

While i do like SA2's stages more, You bring up the point of stages using the same assets and not the same layouts but i'd like to point out that SA1's levels change depending on the character. Amy usually gets exclusive sections, gamma has some exclusive areas, ie hot shelter, knuckles gets his own areas. I'd even argue that the fact that knuckles goes back through levels sonic and tails have helps him because it gives you a good idea ahead of time of the layout of the stage and where everything is placed

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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:29 pm

Exploring the exact same area with different characters has it's pros and cons, but I don't think SA1 handled it all that well and illustrates the cons more so than the pros.

90% of Tails's game is a small subset of Sonic's with a time limit that discourages using Tails's abilities to explore where Sonic can't reach.
100% of Knuckles's game is a subset of Sonic's, and while Knuckles can actually explore the levels in a way that Sonic can't, this didn't really seem to add much to most of the environments.
Gamma's versions of Sonic's levels feel even more abridged than the Tails and Knuckles versions, almost to the point that Hot Shelter feels like his only proper level with everything else being an extended tutorial.
Amy probably has the highest percentage of her game that isn't simply a rehash of Sonic's... Too bad she has the shortest game.
Big is better treated as a mini-game than a full-playable character.

I wouldn't mind seeing Sonic Team or one of the devs Sega likes to outsource Sonic to revisit the idea of 3-D worlds explored by characters with different abilities, but I hope that if they ever do, it's better executed than SA1.

On a related note, a pair of hacks that allowed Tails and Knuckles to play through the entirety of Sonic and Shadow's levels in the Adventure duology would be totally awesome. Hell, just disabling the time limit in Tails's SA1 levels and fixing all "Character in wrong level" crashes in SADXPC would be awesome. Sure, Tails and Knuckles could probably skip huge sections easily that would take insane skill with Sonic if not be outright impossible with Sonic, especially when reaching parts of SA1 levels meant for Knuckle's gameplay, but would go a long way towards fixing SA1's feeling that everyone except Sonic got shafted in the level department. The idea of playing Tails/Eggman's Levels with Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, or Rouge or trying Knuckles and Rouges stages with Sonic, Shadow, or Tails in SA2 also sounds interesting, though I suspect only a subset of SA2 levels could be altered enough to allow completion with all characters(Most of Sonic and Shadow's levels might only need alternatives for some light dash ring lines and giving Mechless Tails the ability to break metal crates, but large sections of Knuckles and Rouge's levels are inaccessible without climbing or digging for example).

Though, in general, SA1 has a lot of issues that we give it a pass on because it was the first flagship Sonic title with fully polygonal graphics and 3-D environments. Had 06 been released on the Dreamcast with Dreamcast-quality graphics and SA1 had first been released on PS360 with PS360 graphics, it's quite possible their reputations would be reversed(Many would argue SA1 is objectively better than 06, but SA1 has many of the same flaws 06 is frequently bashed for but isn't cut as much slack since SA2 and Heroes lack many of those issues).
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by Ivogoji » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:17 pm

We've discussed this kind of thing before:
Ivogoji wrote:"Sonic Adventure 3" (with that exact title) probably isn't in the cards, but a return to the SA-style gameplay would be cool and could happen. I'd like to see-

1-Special Stages return, but are important to the story line, with characters competing to access them and gather the Chaos Emeralds. Boss fights could also be carried out within the Special Stage. This sort of idea was used to excellent effect in Sonic Triple Trouble/Sonic & Tails II, and there's no reason why it wouldn't work in a 3D game.

2-Chao Gardens, of course, vastly upgraded from the previous system.

3-Backwards compatibility with the SA and SA2 Chao Gardens. Somehow.

4-Better controls. Like not having nearly every action require pressing the B button. Homing Attack that actually homes in. Just make things smoother and faster.

5-Adventure fields like in SA, but more like a ubiquitous 'hub' that allows the player to access the Sound Test, Options Menu, Actions Stages, and so forth with the character. The only features that aren't accessible in the Adventure field would be the file select and character select, which appear when you start the game. The 'world map' featured in SA2 can be used as an instant Stage Select menu, while the character being played can access their own stages from the Adventure field.

6-Each area has different enemies. The old games rarely had two zones share one enemy, and instead featured a huge variety of badniks specific to each stage. The 3D games are very lacking in this regard, with uniform foes swarming every stage. More varied, more creative mooks would make for an enjoyable gaming experience.

7-Treasure hunting stages like Knuckles' and Rouge's in SA2. Perhaps with wider areas to explore than the original two games offered. Also, Adventure fields containing hidden items the treasure hunters need to progress within the story (like keys or such) and access new stages.

8-Rouge's boobs bounce more.

9-Less linear gameplay. More freedom to take different paths to clearing stages. Going along with my idea for Special Stages that play a role in the story line, perhaps they are accessed by locating hidden Giant Rings as in Sonic3&Knuckles, allowing for mutliple ways to follow the plot of the game.

10-Multiple modes of gameplay for Tails (and other character I guess, but especially him). Some stages have standard Sonic-like gameplay where the player controls Tails without a mech, others are Gamma-style shooters with Tails piloting a walker, while others are 'sub-games' that have him flying around in a biplane (as in Sky Chase of SA) or driving an automobile (as in Route 101 of SA2) or even piloting a submarine (as in Triple Trouble and Tails Adventure). Other characters can also have different gameplay modes, perhaps similarly piloting vehicles, or maybe riding Extreme Gear. Although, this would call for an utterly massive number of stages for the characters to have balanced playing opportunities, made even worse if Sonic's story importance means he gets more levels to advance the plot.

11-In answer to the above problem of an implausible number of stages, characters can access other characters' stages if they share gameplay. Perhaps all of Tails' stages in the story are shooters or submarine levels, but you can go to the Adventure field and play one of Sonic's stages as a mechless Tails. Same for other characters. We would no longer need to use glitches to see Tails get chased by a whale or action replay to make Eggman out run a giant truck. Goals for each stage vary with the character being played and the challenge being... challenged.

12-Playable characters- Sonic (platformer, biplane sub-game), Tails (platformer, biplane sub-game, driving sub-game, shooter, submarine.... sub.... game), Knuckles (platformer, treasure hunter, submarine sub-game), Amy (platformer, treasure hunter, driving sub-game), Shadow (platformer, shooter), Rouge (platformer, treasure hunter, driving sub-game[just plays Amy's stages? Or vice-versa.]), Eggman (platformer, shooter, biplane sub-game), Metal Sonic (platformer, driving sub-game), Fang (platformer, treasure hunter, shooter, driving sub-game), Silver (platformer, uh.....), Blaze (platformer, treasure hunter), Cream & Cheese (platformer, submarine sub-game, I guess), E-123 Omega (platformer, shooter [just plays Shadows stages?]), Big (platformer, biplane sub-game, submare sub-game [your mission is to destroy fish]), Espio (platformer, treasure hunter), Vector (platformer, driving sub-game), Charmy (platformer, biplane sub-game).
Only like half of them actually need to be important to the plot though. The rest can be unlockable for getting so many emblems or whatever.
Ivogoji wrote: The topic was prompted from playing SADX and wondering what a sequel to the game would be like if the elements SA2 dropped were still present.

Some of my own ideas:
- Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, and Big each have their own storyline and gameplay style
- Story mode has the characters going through stages unique to each of them, but post story gameplay lets the characters access each others' levels
- Sonic's gameplay is largely the same, but now he can execute a variety of tricks to garner points (like in the bonafide SA2 and Sonic Rush); the kind of rank he gets (now S through E) is largely determined by the complexity of tricks performed and the amount of time it takes to complete the stage
- Tails only has one action stage where he races another character, the rest of his gameplay consists of subgames like the Sky Chase stage, Snowboarding, Pinball, and Cart racing mini-games.
- Knuckles stages are basically the usual treasure hunting gameplay, but now each stage has a different mission objective, and doesn't necessarily involve finding items in groups of three (think of the Chaotix's levels in Sonic Heroes). Sometimes he has to destroy certain enemies without attacking any others, or find a certain number of small animals, or blow out torches to activate the defense system, etc.
- Like you guys suggested, Amy's gameplay would involve more exploration and puzzle solving stages. She no longer has to run from ZERO, but each of her stages has some similar threat that must be avoided and can't be killed. One could work like the Egg Beetle in SA2, but the others would be all unique.
- Eggman would serve as Gamma's replacement and have shooter stages. This time however the clock counts down rather than up and Eggman needs to rack up targets to keep the timer from running out. Subsequently his gameplay is faster than in SA2, with the focus on reaching the end of the stage with a decent amount of time left to spare. Eggman can also exit the Egg Walker when playing other characters' stages, and has a move set better suited to combat than his Chao Garden form.
- Big the Cat would have improved fishing gameplay, more like the fishing mini-game in Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, with the ability to customize his fishing gear and use different lures for different fish. Type of fish is now as important as size, and different stages demand different catches. He would also have improved gameplay just for running around the stages, more like the way he works in Sonic Heroes, and now he would be able fight enemies effectively using the fishing rod as a huge flail.
- Sonic can play Tails' sub-games and Knuckles treasure hunting stages outside of story mode. In the latter case, items that would normally be accessible just to Knuckles (for example buried underground) will only appear where Sonic can get them, and Sonic can in turn access areas in the stage Knuckles cannot. Sonic uses a handheld radar to detect items with his own quirks distinct from Knuckles' ability to sense the Emeralds.
- Tails can play all of Sonic's stages using his classical gameplay style and also Eggman's shooter stages, now piloting the Cyclone walker like the actual SA2.
- Knuckles can play all of Sonic's stages and Amy's stages. Both Tails and Knuckles can pull off their kinds of tricks when playing Sonic's stages.
- Amy can play all of Big's stages and all of Knuckles stages, gaining a Piko Piko Hammer-style fishing rod for the former and a dowsing rod to detect treasure for the latter. As in Sonic's case there are locations in the stage only she can reach and items don't appear where she can't reach.
- Eggman can play all of Big's stages and all of Tails' subgames. Yes, including the radical snowboarding mini-game BI
- Big can play all of Amy's stages and all of Eggman's shooter stages, piloting the Egg Walker and Cyclone interchangably as in SA2DC's multiplayer mode.
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Re: Fan-Made Sonic Adventure 3

Post by CFood » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:43 pm

Ivogoji wrote:We've discussed this kind of thing before:
Ivogoji wrote:8-Rouge's boobs bounce more.
Priorities. Also I love how you had to make it 8, the number that looks like a pair
KeatonLabs wrote:Hot shelter is made literally exactly for amy
Also the only stage Sonic doesn't play.

I still feel they could have executed it way better. Big isn't a problem at all, but I have enough of a problem with every other character at least once I feel like I need to point it out.

Casinopolis, Ice Cap, and Hot Shelter I don't have this problem.

It's mostly Knuckles in Speed Highway doesn't feel right, it's really hallways and tunnely. (I also hate Death Chamber in SA2 for this reason as well)

Sonic going through these big open areas that either Knuckles or Gamma were intended for or Sonic going through Twinkle Park which seems to be more up Amy's alley. (But then when you look at Lost World with the mirrors, the wall magnets, and the rock snake, it kinda makes this argument empty)

Amy I don't really have a problem with now that I think about it. But she also only has three stages.

Gamma has a sort of false difficulty spike where except for Final Egg, the rest seem way too platformy for what he should be doing. Final Egg was just a flat straight area with a few gaps and then Emerald Coast with sparse enemies and more platforming that just didn't happen in Final Egg. I don't really remember much about Hot Shelter, so I can only assume that it's actually pretty good

Tails, except for Speed Highway and the stages I pointed out, is almost completely broken. He can literally skip most of the platforming and make it ridiculously easy.

But yeah those are my gripes. They aren't game breaking or ruining, but I feel they could have been executed way better than what it was.
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