The Last Smash Bros Direct

[chaoadventures]

^From a characters I want in Smash perspective, I just don't want her. I have like 4 other characters I really would have liked and there's like, 30, I would have just been okay to happy with.
Put simply, she just happens to be on the exact opposite side of the want list.

Competitively however, I'm just really, really, scared all the rules she's breaking are gonna break the game itself.
That whole double side-special thing especially seems too strong to me. And combos aren't a thing you just slap on a character's specials and just run with either, which bothers me.
I just personally feel like Taunt Canceling shouldn't be exclusive.

I'm also afraid about how she's gonna affect Kirby. Probably really badly. And I'm probably gonna quit playing Smash altogether, since Kirby was already in somewhat bad shape to begin with and she's probably only gonna make it
much, much, worse because he doesn't deal with genuine combos or projectiles well.

Also, since I'm here, want to bring up that before the game was released, the on Miiverse Director's Room it was actually said they tried as hard as possible to make the Ray Gun not look like a real gun.

Bayonetta shows up.
4 guns.
Bullet rounds included.
Nice job.
You guys really cared.

[EvilPinkamina]

What a lame last two picks. Another Fire Emblem character? Really? After we have like, 4 already. Fire Emblem is turning into the Pokemon of Smash 4. They dominate a good amount of the roaster, and just add more awful sword characters to the game.

Bayonetta I don't care about. I heard her game was good I guess, but I personally just don't care for her at all. I could list off 5 other far more interesting characters they could've used (like Ice Climbers lol) but her addition doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that they've added in three more sword characters to a game already overflowing with them.

Pretty sure all the characters are gonna be another $12-$14 too in the bundle, so that's a huge rip off.

Nobody believed me when I said Smash 4 was gonna do dlc. They did dlc so hard and so bad that I'm pretty sure they took their business strategy directly from OVERKILL.

Corrin looks dope w/ the dragon based moveset. Low lag and a chainsaw sword. A CHAINSAW SWORD. That **** looks dope. And besides, now we have 6/58 characters instead of 5/57 from Fire Emblem. Ohh noooo... Das too muuuccchhhh... 6 whole characters....

Bayo is probs the best popular character they could have added to the game. Ice Climbers is currently impossible due to technical limitations, as Sakurai has stated multiple times.

There are more melee punch and kick characters than sword characters, and almost every sword character plays differently in this game. (Marth/Lucina being the only sword characters that play similar, and even then, there are some situational differences)

$12-$14 would get you one character in a traditional fighting game, not 2 characters and 1 (possible competitively legal) stage. Not to mention that both Bayo and Corrin are going to cost around $11 solo if they follow the precedent set with Ryu and Roy.

Nintendo did DLC well. They created all their content post launch, charged less than what is normally expected from the genre, and currently there is no power creep where DLC characters have any unfair advantages over normal characters. In all of Nintendo's DLC for smash, we get 3 stages from smash 64 (Dreamland, Peach's Castle, and Hyrule Castle), a free battlefield clone w/ memes (Memeverse), a stage from brawl (Pirate Ship), and 3 original stages (Suzaku Castle, Umbra Witch Tower, and Super Mario Maker), as well as 3 returning veterans (Lucas, Roy, Mewtwo) that tons of people wanted and 4 new characters (Cloud, Ryu, Corrin, Bayonetta) to the series, each with their own interesting mechanics that we wouldn't have otherwise.

^From a characters I want in Smash perspective, I just don't want her. I have like 4 other characters I really would have liked and there's like, 30, I would have just been okay to happy with.
Put simply, she just happens to be on the exact opposite side of the want list.

Competitively however, I'm just really, really, scared all the rules she's breaking are gonna break the game itself.
That whole double side-special thing especially seems too strong to me. And combos aren't a thing you just slap on a character's specials and just run with either, which bothers me.
I just personally feel like Taunt Canceling shouldn't be exclusive.

I'm also afraid about how she's gonna affect Kirby. Probably really badly. And I'm probably gonna quit playing Smash altogether, since Kirby was already in somewhat bad shape to begin with and she's probably only gonna make it
much, much, worse because he doesn't deal with genuine combos or projectiles well.

Also, since I'm here, want to bring up that before the game was released, the on Miiverse Director's Room it was actually said they tried as hard as possible to make the Ray Gun not look like a real gun.

Bayonetta shows up.
4 guns.
Bullet rounds included.
Nice job.
You guys really cared.

She doesn't have any kill moves other than her smashes from what it looks like. Maybe fair if you carry them high on the stage. She's going to rely a lot on witch time and combos to get her kills, and if she whiffs she has more landing lag than lucario's up b. You can only cancel one taunt because its hella long. Not to mention that the way 64 does it and the way bayo has it are two completely different taunt cancels. I would kill for 64 esque taunt cancels because I can be an asshole with palutena.

Kirby just got HELLA buffed, despite already being a p decent character. Just from the leaked patch (which was incomplete btw), kirby had KBG increased on fsmsah, usmash, dsmash, fair, uthrow, and all 3 side b's. Not to mention there's going to be at least one more patch, because adding the characters to the game.

DLC doesn't have to deal with the same, strict regulations that the Japanese government and American ESRB have, because it is an optional addition to the game that you don't need to buy.

[KeatonLabs]

I cant say i didnt walk away slightly disappointed but tis how it works. I did actually send a vote in for bayonetta so she has me so incredibly hyped its not even funny.

Corrin i could care less, i dont like that we now have 6 FE characters, even if corrin looks fun as hell. It sits sour with me while Donkey kong, a series not only more popular but one thats been around as long as mario has only two.

And cloud is cloud and cloud is hype.

But i still walked away just somewhat disappointed. But i would be a damn liar if i said this didnt make me hype, and what issues i did have will wear away sooner or latter.

Also kirby got buffed massively idk what your talking about. At least mah boi shulk did too, even if it doesnt change too much with him.

[chaoadventures]

She doesn't have any kill moves other than her smashes from what it looks like. Maybe fair if you carry them high on the stage. She's going to rely a lot on witch time and combos to get her kills,

What can be considered a kill move for a medium weight character (Mario) and a light weight one (Kirby) is very different. Most character's smashes at like 80% would usually count. Kirby is also combo fodder, which means he's gonna get KOed anyways.

Not to mention that the way 64 does it and the way bayo has it are two completely different taunt cancels.

We don't know that entirely yet. They could all be cancel-able taunts. We also don't know if they all make her say stuff, which would just make it a ledge-less version.

Kirby just got HELLA buffed, despite already being a p decent character. Just from the leaked patch (which was incomplete btw), kirby had KBG increased on fsmsah, usmash, dsmash, fair, uthrow, and all 3 side b's. Not to mention there's going to be at least one more patch, because adding the characters to the game.

Those next patches could all be huge nerfs. Kirby still has low weight and low range though, so it doesn't matter.

DLC doesn't have to deal with the same, strict regulations that the Japanese government and American ESRB have, because it is an optional addition to the game that you don't need to buy.

They still didn't have to put effort towards designing it that much, as evidenced by Melee and Brawl being rated Teen. And sales-wise, it doesn't matter what the rating is, and the Ray Gun also looked more like a gun in those games too. All I'm saying is they wasted time and effort. (Not that they didn't already.)

[EvilPinkamina]

What can be considered a kill move for a medium weight character (Mario) and a light weight one (Kirby) is very different. Most character's smashes at like 80% would usually count. Kirby is also combo fodder, which means he's gonna get KOed anyways.

A kill move in every situation is a move that has strong enough knockback to realistically deal the killing blow. For example, Sheik's bouncing fish or Charizard's back air. From what we know, she has her smash attacks and maybe forward air (assuming that you can't SDI/DI out of it at higher percents). Most smashes at 80% will kill in general, because they are smash attacks and they're made to kill.

We don't know that entirely yet. They could all be cancel-able taunts. We also don't know if they all make her say stuff, which would just make it a ledge-less version.

The explanation said you can cancel her dancing taunt or have her do a really long dance, similar to PM's loop taunts.

Those next patches could all be huge nerfs. Kirby still has low weight and low range though, so it doesn't matter.

Sooo, your issue with the character you main are two characteristics of the character? Why do you main them then if you don't like two of the big characteristics?

They still didn't have to put effort towards designing it that much, as evidenced by Melee and Brawl being rated Teen. And sales-wise, it doesn't matter what the rating is, and the Ray Gun also looked more like a gun in those games too. All I'm saying is they wasted time and effort. (Not that they didn't already.)

No, they didn't. But they did. That's kinda the Sakurai touch. They were already remaking the assets from scratch. They had no reason to change it other than they just wanted to. And they did. The ray gun looks less like a boring, normal pistol and more like an actual ray gun. Unsurprisingly, when given more to work with, Sakurai will put more effort in. He's a perfectionist, and that isn't exactly a negative quality.

[Rajikaru]

Only really posting because I see a lot of FE hate (with good reason) going on and I just wanna say (if it hasn't been said already)

I totally understand the FE hate but do remember FE is incredibly popular in Japan, where the biggest Smash/Nintendo market is. I'd say it's even comparable to Pokemon's popularity.

Also, Korrin looks to be an interesting take on a sword-based character since their specials involve them turning into part of their dragon form. Hell, their idle pose alone looks almost uncanny valley-levels of strange, especially relative to other smash characters.

Lastly my hopes are still high for, at the very least, a Goku mii outfit

[chaoadventures]

A kill move in every situation is a move that has strong enough knockback to realistically deal the killing blow. For example, Sheik's bouncing fish or Charizard's back air. From what we know, she has her smash attacks and maybe forward air (assuming that you can't SDI/DI out of it at higher percents). Most smashes at 80% will kill in general, because they are smash attacks and they're made to kill.

Once again, Kirby is lighter. More things that don't normally work, slip into the range.

Sooo, your issue with the character you main are two characteristics of the character? Why do you main them then if you don't like two of the big characteristics?

Because I can't adapt to most other characters well. For example, I can't stand playing with Mario because he feels too heavy, Link feels too slow.
There's only like, 5 characters I've been able to actually feel comfortable with. I blame 5 year old me for making the choice of Kirby.

[EvilPinkamina]

Because I can't adapt to most other characters well. For example, I can't stand playing with Mario because he feels too heavy, Link feels too slow.
There's only like, 5 characters I've been able to actually feel comfortable with. I blame 5 year old me for making the choice of Kirby.

Top tier fast, lightweight characters include: Rosalina, Pikachu, ZSS, Ness. Try em out some time. They're pretty fun.

[chaoadventures]

I've tried all of them before.

Rosalina has too much of a learning curve but I couldn't get her to work anyways, unlike the Ice Climbers.

I just can't get behind Pikachu for some reason, but I tried for a really long time.

Zero Suit's hitboxes and other aspects are in such weird positions I can't even play.

I used to actually use Ness at some point. But I'm too predictable with him though and I don't know exactly what I'm doing wrong, or what else to do, so I stopped.

When Smash 3DS came out I actually went through all the characters to see who else I liked and I slowly narrowed it all down by using them at the same time.
All I really came out with in the end was Toon Link.

[KeatonLabs]

Only really posting because I see a lot of FE hate (with good reason) going on and I just wanna say (if it hasn't been said already)

I totally understand the FE hate but do remember FE is incredibly popular in Japan, where the biggest Smash/Nintendo market is. I'd say it's even comparable to Pokemon's popularity.

Also, Korrin looks to be an interesting take on a sword-based character since their specials involve them turning into part of their dragon form. Hell, their idle pose alone looks almost uncanny valley-levels of strange, especially relative to other smash characters.

Lastly my hopes are still high for, at the very least, a Goku mii outfit

Correct me if im wrong...but if it werent for awakening becoming a massive success wasnt the series on its last legs? Thats what i seem to be hearing.

[EvilPinkamina]

You heard incorrectly.

[Nano]

What a lame last two picks. Another Fire Emblem character? Really? After we have like, 4 already. Fire Emblem is turning into the Pokemon of Smash 4. They dominate a good amount of the roaster, and just add more awful sword characters to the game.

Bayonetta I don't care about. I heard her game was good I guess, but I personally just don't care for her at all. I could list off 5 other far more interesting characters they could've used (like Ice Climbers lol) but her addition doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that they've added in three more sword characters to a game already overflowing with them.

Pretty sure all the characters are gonna be another $12-$14 too in the bundle, so that's a huge rip off.

Nobody believed me when I said Smash 4 was gonna do dlc. They did dlc so hard and so bad that I'm pretty sure they took their business strategy directly from OVERKILL.

Corrin looks dope w/ the dragon based moveset. Low lag and a chainsaw sword. A CHAINSAW SWORD. That **** looks dope. And besides, now we have 6/58 characters instead of 5/57 from Fire Emblem. Ohh noooo... Das too muuuccchhhh... 6 whole characters....

I don't really care how the character looks or how they look like they'll play. Also, even though your sarcasm tries to depict that 6/58 as small, think about this. 6/58 is 3/29. 3/29 can be broken down into, roughly, 1/9.6. That's 10.3% of the entire roaster. That's a lot considering some of the actual super popular IPs in both the US AND Japan only take up 8.6% of the roaster. It's stupidly overpopulated with these characters, regardless of how popular it is in Japan.

Bayo is probs the best popular character they could have added to the game. Ice Climbers is currently impossible due to technical limitations, as Sakurai has stated multiple times.

I'm not saying they could've added Ice Climbers, but they sure as hell deserve the spot more than her. Again, I don't really care about her being added nearly as much as I just think there could've been a better pick.

There are more melee punch and kick characters than sword characters, and almost every sword character plays differently in this game. (Marth/Lucina being the only sword characters that play similar, and even then, there are some situational differences)

So you justify an overabundance of sword fighters by saying we have an overabundance of melee fighters? At least the melee fighters have actual variety, whereas most every other sword fighter has a down+b counter to simply fill up a move slot. I won't lie, they're not ALL the same, but most of them share similar qualities whereas the melee fighters tend to be complete diverse (when not counting direct clones which shouldn't exist now that we have custom moves).

$12-$14 would get you one character in a traditional fighting game, not 2 characters and 1 (possible competitively legal) stage. Not to mention that both Bayo and Corrin are going to cost around $11 solo if they follow the precedent set with Ryu and Roy.

That's a whole bunch of lies right there. Don't know what fighting game you've been playing, but most all the ones I play have characters set at around $2-$6. Not $12-$14. I'm also not justifying their prices in other fighting games, I'm condemning them if anything for shoving out extra characters for ridiculously high prices. Considering the last pack was nearly $20 for 4 characters, it's ridiculous that anyone would look at that and say "Yeah that's a fair price".

Nintendo did DLC well. They created all their content post launch, charged less than what is normally expected from the genre, and currently there is no power creep where DLC characters have any unfair advantages over normal characters. In all of Nintendo's DLC for smash, we get 3 stages from smash 64 (Dreamland, Peach's Castle, and Hyrule Castle), a free battlefield clone w/ memes (Memeverse), a stage from brawl (Pirate Ship), and 3 original stages (Suzaku Castle, Umbra Witch Tower, and Super Mario Maker), as well as 3 returning veterans (Lucas, Roy, Mewtwo) that tons of people wanted and 4 new characters (Cloud, Ryu, Corrin, Bayonetta) to the series, each with their own interesting mechanics that we wouldn't have otherwise.

Literally everything you described is what other fighting games have been doing for years. There's nothing great about it. One free stage? Wow, that's great. I'm very impressed they added in one whole CLONE of another stage. /s

Seriously though, Smash is doing DLC bad, just like every other company out there. In Mario Kart 8 they basically added in half the game for $12 by adding in 16 new tracks, eight new vehicles, and six new characters. THAT'S DLC done right. You're seriously going to justify $18 for four characters as a "good price"? Are you blind yo? That's a complete ripoff now that they've shown they can make affordable DLC that adds a whole bunch of things to the game.

As of right now, the cheapest way to buy all characters and all stages for the lowest price is roughly around $45.50 give or take. This does not factor in the character bundle they may do in the future, this is just using the prices they've given to us now.

If you can justify 7 characters and 7 stages for that high of a price, then I don't know what to say to you yo. It's not DLC done right, not in the slightest.

Also, to add on to what Keaton said:

As previously stated, Fire Emblem has had a cult following but remained reasonably niche. That's not some arrogant 'You guys won't have heard of it' boasting, just a simple fact. I remember reading a review of the GBA Fire Emblem which convinced me to get it back in the day, but generally the series has shunned the spotlight. Heck, Nintendo thought so little of the news that Awakening would be reaching Western shores that it was 'officially announced' through Reggie Fils Aime's Twitter account. After that mis-stumble though, the game received a fair amount of attention. A steady stream of trailers and TV ads ensured the game would be noticed rather than swamped by big names coming out on the main consoles at the same time. It featured prominently on the 'Nintendo Direct' broadcasts, and the delay until April in Europe was softened by the announcement of a limited edition 3DS XL.

I know Fire Emblem may be popular in Japan, but the only reason Fire Emblem now has any sort of success is due to the fact that people liked the most recent game. FE was dying in America, and I have no doubt that if awakening proved to be a massive letdown, we would not have seen the addition of 2/7 of the dlc characters being from FE.

[Mamkute]

chaoadventures, I can see your rants on Bayonetta, but many people are very hyped for her, and unfortunately, not everyone awesome can be added/some characters that some dislike will likely be in it. I wouldn't worry too much on balance for a while- people are very fast to equate hype for a new character to a character having an inflated tier placement. And updates to existing characters, and how good a main is, are just part of life.

Fox:
I agree better choices could have been made. But that is true pretty much always.
The focus on Corrin should not be Sword. It should be Dragon!
I would consider price per character quite reasonable. 7 Characters is quite a lot, so the price for all of them is quite high, but on a per content basis, I would call it reasonable.

And for Fire Emblem, if Awakening did not do well, probably Corrin would not be in. Probably US wouldn't be getting Fates. Even Robin may not have been in (Lucina probably would be since she was put in there for the hell of it anyway.)
But Roy is most certainly not in there for Fire Emblem fans, he is in there for Smash fans. Roy is quite largely considered the most disappointing main character in Fire Emblem. Terrible in game, and (arguably) very dull character. He is there for all the good times people recall from Melee.

[Nano]

7 characters is a lot, yes, but is it worth $35? I hardly think so, especially since they've done far more for less than half the price with other games that weren't NEARLY as popular as Smash 4 is.

Again, Mario Kart added in 6 characters for $12. Characters may be easier to add in that game, but also consider the 8 new vehicles. Each one needs to be created, textured, tweaked, and made balanced for the game. Not to mention, 16 new tracks for the game packed into it. It just doesn't make sense how they added so much into Mario Kart 8 for such a low price, but somehow can't do the same for Smash 4.

Now it's hard for me to determine given all the conflicting articles, but Smash 4 (both 3DS and Wii U) has sold somewhere around 7 Million - 10 Million and Mario Kart 8 at ~7 Million. I find it difficult to believe that they simply didn't profit enough off of Smash 4 to make affordable DLC.

I also forgot to mention: $45.50 is the price for just the Wii U content. If you wanted to get both the 3DS and Wii U version, that'd be $54.46 (roughly).

[chaoadventures]

people are very fast to equate hype for a new character to a character having an inflated tier placement.

Yes, but I looked at Cloud and Corrin, and didn't really feel like they'd hurt or hinder the game, but more like they'd fit in with the rest of the roster normally,
maybe being a very tad bit stronger than average just to make your cash worth it, but still balanced and interesting.

And that's what I said about Cloud, who if you didn't notice,

cloud is hype.

Also, word of advice, don't read the word "Cloud" too closely or it'll look weird. I don't know why.

[Rajikaru]

7 characters is a lot, yes, but is it worth $35? I hardly think so, especially since they've done far more for less than half the price with other games that weren't NEARLY as popular as Smash 4 is.

Again, Mario Kart added in 6 characters for $12. Characters may be easier to add in that game, but also consider the 8 new vehicles. Each one needs to be created, textured, tweaked, and made balanced for the game. Not to mention, 16 new tracks for the game packed into it. It just doesn't make sense how they added so much into Mario Kart 8 for such a low price, but somehow can't do the same for Smash 4.

I'm not saying you're wrong that the new characters in sm4sh are way overpriced, but you're completing overstating the difference between designing a character/kart in mario kart and designing a new character in Sm4sh.

In Mario Kart, we can assume the process for coming up with a new character and their kart is this: Come up with a Mario character. Come up with their kart. Have the concept artists come up with concept art for the kart and the character. Come up with what kind of stats they have (which are nothing more than coded numbers).

In Smash, you have to: come up with a new character, make sure they can fit into the Smash universe. Then, you have to come up with how they'll move in the game, how they'll jump, their weight relative to other characters, their traction, their air control, and their taunts. Then, they have to come up with the neutral combo moves, dash attack, four tilt moves, four smash moves, and 5 air moves, as well as the specials and final smash, and how they'll all work. Have concept artists draw the character in the style of smash.

Now, implementing the characters.

MK: Have a modeller model the character and the kart in full. Have a texture artist make the textures for the character and kart. Finally, give them animations. Now, let's separate these animations into groups: Turning, horn honking, accelerating, air tricks, holding items, head turning to look behind, victory/2nd place/loser pose loops. That's about it. The karts need their tires, steering wheel, and suspension animated. SFX? Take a few voice samples from the latest game the characters were in.

Sm4sh: First you have to design their moveset. How will they play? Will they be big slow damage dealers, or quick glass cannons? Will they have unique properties? What will their final smash be? What will their alt costumes look like? And then, you have to animate them. Idle 1, the default animation. Idles 2 3 and 4, all of which are different and unique animations. Slowly walking. Walking. Running. dash attack. All 15 different attacks need animations, their jump animation, their tripping animation, their stunned animation, their 4 taunts, their holding an item animation, their throwing animation, their shooting animation, their whacking animation, their slicing animation, their home run bat animation, their crouching animation, riding animations, knocked down and get-up animations, victory pose animations (3 separate unique ones), grabbing and throwing animations, being grabbed animation, and facial flexes for various events (such as being damaged). That's not even mentioning all the work that can go into a final smash. Getting a VA in or using a sound effect artist to record all of the character's dialogue. Getting Xander in to record their name for the CSS. Designing their emblem if they're the first character of their respective series. CSS art. their SFX particles and graphics, and finally, Assuming they're a character like Ryu, then you have to consider doing the exact same thing with their new stage.

There's a huge difference, to say the least. Except for very minor stat differences, characters in MK8 are merely Miis before Miis, avatars used to distinguish different characters in a race. Smash characters are unique fighting game characters entirely.

[Pufflehugs]

Bayonetta shouldn't be here! Think of the children! Snake was alright, but Bayonetta crosses the line!

Let's just hope they meant last DLC of 2015 but didn't translate it properly.

I still want Captain Toad.

[EvilPinkamina]

If you don't want a DLC character, just don't buy them. :p

[KeatonLabs]

If you don't want a DLC character, just don't buy them. :p

The most truthful of words

I think nova put it best about the dlc, and honestly its not too bad, dont get who you dont want and you should be good. A lot of effort goes into these things, i mean just look at the midgar stage it's just, wow. I love it.

Im sure balancing the character during development plays a part to that cost too

[Nano]

If you don't want a DLC character, just don't buy them. :p

What if you want a DLC character? That still doesn't get rid of the fact that you'd need to pay out the nose just to have the full roaster that you wanted. This isn't about me paying out the nose for DLC, it's about others who want these characters and stages who have to.

@ Nova: I can understand what you're saying. Characters in Smash 4 may take far more time and effort than characters in karts and whatnot, but they also released 16 tracks, a lot of which are made completely from scratch or based on entirely different IPs. I wanna say about half are not simple remakes, give or take a few.

In Smash 4, a stage does not take much work to create. You put down platforms similar to ones seen in the game it's from, make the background using reused assets from a Mario game or whatever it's from, and then you maybe add a stage gimmick.

Mario Kart 8 tracks need to completely redesign some textures, or at least find ways to reuse old ones in some sort of clever way. Music for those levels needs to be completely redone if it's not based on another game franchise. Tracks need to be littered with items, boosts, jumps, and overall ways to make the stage standout from others. They need to be thoroughly tested and made sure they're not glitchy or unfair. You need to put a LOT more detail into them because unlike Smash 4, characters in that game have full view of everything both in front of them and behind them. Layouts are also really important when designing each level, making sure they're not too long and boring or too short and not fun.

Characters in Mario Kart 8 granted, are not that big of a deal. Most people are more concerned about the tracks than the characters and karts, and that was my mistake to try and compare apples to oranges. I still believe though that the Smash 4 DLC is far too expensive when comparing it to other games that Nintendo has DLC in. I relate that mainly to the fact that die hard fans of Smash will, without question, eat up that DLC without so much as a second glance.

[EvilPinkamina]

If you want a DLC character, spend the $5-$6. If not, don't. If they want to, they can pay for it. Its not like it was created before the game was released. Purchasing smash 4 already guarantees you more characters than any smash game, a more balanced competitive, access to comp from the start, a decently enjoyable single player mode, and tons of fun and interesting stages. All of this DLC is created after the game is released, so why should the team not get payed to actually create work after the game's release?

In Smash 4, a stage does not take much work to create. You put down platforms similar to ones seen in the game it's from, make the background using reused assets from a Mario game or whatever it's from, and then you maybe add a stage gimmick.

...

That's not how stage design in smash bros works at all, but I think you already know that and you're just trying to prove a point.

[Rajikaru]

If you don't want a DLC character, just don't buy them. :p

What if you want a DLC character? That still doesn't get rid of the fact that you'd need to pay out the nose just to have the full roaster that you wanted. This isn't about me paying out the nose for DLC, it's about others who want these characters and stages who have to.

@ Nova: I can understand what you're saying. Characters in Smash 4 may take far more time and effort than characters in karts and whatnot, but they also released 16 tracks, a lot of which are made completely from scratch or based on entirely different IPs. I wanna say about half are not simple remakes, give or take a few.

In Smash 4, a stage does not take much work to create. You put down platforms similar to ones seen in the game it's from, make the background using reused assets from a Mario game or whatever it's from, and then you maybe add a stage gimmick.

...Why does that matter though? Stages and characters are separate purchases in Sm4sh.

[KeatonLabs]

I believe the only stages that have to bought with another charrie are the ryu stage and midgar, which i think only bump the price by 1$

[EvilPinkamina]

That's exactly right

[Nano]

If you don't want a DLC character, just don't buy them. :p

What if you want a DLC character? That still doesn't get rid of the fact that you'd need to pay out the nose just to have the full roaster that you wanted. This isn't about me paying out the nose for DLC, it's about others who want these characters and stages who have to.

@ Nova: I can understand what you're saying. Characters in Smash 4 may take far more time and effort than characters in karts and whatnot, but they also released 16 tracks, a lot of which are made completely from scratch or based on entirely different IPs. I wanna say about half are not simple remakes, give or take a few.

In Smash 4, a stage does not take much work to create. You put down platforms similar to ones seen in the game it's from, make the background using reused assets from a Mario game or whatever it's from, and then you maybe add a stage gimmick.

...Why does that matter though? Stages and characters are separate purchases in Sm4sh.

I think that's the major problem here. Everything in Smash 4 is put down as single purchases or bundled with the characters, rather than done in an expansion type method which we see in Mario Kart 8.

I only compare the stages in both games to make a point: Mario Kart 8 has a lot of work done on the stages, the main focus of the game, and Smash 4 has a lot of work done on their characters, the main focus of the game. Yet the pricing is complete garbage in Smash 4 for some reason. Do you realize that buying three characters alone, no stages attached, amounts to cost for both expansions in Mario Kart 8? That's ludicrous! It makes absolutely no sense! Three characters in Smash 4 do not even come CLOSE to the amount of content featured in Mario Kart 8, yet somehow people praise Nintendo for making "fair" DLC prices for Smash 4.

I'm def not trying to argue that DLC for Smash 4 should be free or anything, though it would be nice, but the way they're doing it right now is exactly the problem with a large amount of the gaming industry. Doing everything in single purchases and then making them into bundles is awful. Smash 4 seriously should have stuck to the method used in Mario Kart 8, but they didn't. That's because they wanted to milk out as much money as they could from the DLC sales for such a popular series. That's not bad you might say, it's business. I agree, it's business. I just don't agree that everything in business needs to involve screwing over your fans.

@ Pink: That really isn't a very great way to justify a price, as it doesn't make any sense in context with what I'm talking about.

"If you want a character, buy it" is just... wrong. It's wrong to fall back on, as it means you can't justify the price in itself. Your only justification is that it's a price and you have to either pay it or don't because the price isn't wrong, you must be for thinking it's wrong.

Again, as I stated earlier, I'm not saying the DLC should be free. It just should've been priced more reasonably considering Mario Kart 8's DLC was also made post-launch for the game and costs a fraction of the price.