Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

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Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Master Chao » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:09 pm

Hello Chao Island! It's Master Chao. Some of you may know me as a member of CI that became inactive a long time ago despite being rather knowledgeable of chao. Others of you may not know me at all. That's ok. I've been gone for a loooong time.

Today I am going to discuss a theory on chao breeding that I've been meaning to discuss for a while now.

When we chao scientists do our breeding tests to find results for chao there are a number of breeding methods we can use:

1)Buying the fruit, Saving the game, Giving the chao the fruit, Breeding, Hatching and recording the result, Then resetting to give them the fruit again.

2)Saving the game, Buying the fruit, Giving the chao the fruit, Breeding, Hatching and recording the result, Then resetting the game to buy the fruit, save the game again, and give them the fruit again.

3)Giving them the fruit, Saving the game, Breeding them, Hatching the egg and recording the result, Then resetting the game to breed them again (since you saved the game after they ate the fruit they'll be in mating season when you cut the game back on).

All of these methods are "Reset Methods."

Another method is "Continuous Breeding," In which you buy several fruit and keep giving the chao the fruit, breeding them, and recording the results (then possibly getting rid of the results as you go to keep space in the garden) continuously without needing to reset your game.

What I'm hoping to prove with this topic is that when we use the Reset Methods to breed our chao that there is actually a batch of "Set Results."

This means that no matter how many times you breed the two same chao using these methods that you'll eventually realize that you get the same exact babies over and over, at least up to 6 or 7 distinct baby results.
When I say "the same exact baby" I mean the baby will have the same color, face, personality, favorite fruit, and grades as a baby you got before.

An Example of what I'm talking about:
You Decide to breed a pure Normal chao with a pure Monotone blue chao using a reset method. You breed them over 100 times and record the results every time. When you finally look over the results you realize that you only ever got 5 different chao:
A Normal chao with normal eyes, no mouth, no personality, with ABSAE grades.
A Blue chao with normal eyes, a v mouth, crybaby personality, and SAABD grades.
A Twotone blue chao with normal eyes, a toothy grin, crybaby personality and ABSAE grades.
A Twotone blue chao with happy eyes, no mouth, no personality and SASAD grades.
A Twotone blue chao with normal eyes no mouth, crybaby personality and AAABE grades.

I believe this happens because every time we breed two chao the game formulates a batch of "specific results" and then a chao is picked from this batch to be the chao that comes out of the egg. When we breed using reset methods the formulated batch of "specific results" doesn't change and it becomes possible for the same chao to be born over and over.

If you breed using the continuous breeding method you get a higher variety of results. This is because every time the two chao breed using new fruit the game considers it a "new breeding sessions" and a different batch of possible results is made.

Of course, I've only used the reset method that involves buying the fruit first, saving, and then giving the chao the fruit. The results may not be like this if you use the reset method that involves you saving before you buy the fruit.

Which is why this theory is one I will be testing over the next few days!

And I will totally be willing to prove this theory as completely false as well. I made it based on a really simple observation while I was breeding my "mint" chao several months back. This theory has holes and doesn't make sense to me in a lot of ways. I have proposed it here today because I want help from the community to discuss and expand on it, or to even completely break it down in favor of another theory.

Any questions or comments, or if you think that I'm missing another type of breeding method, any posts would be appreciated. :)
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Mayo » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:30 am

In terms of appearances, it actually makes some sense.
But how often does each 'batch' change? I more thought it as a sheer probability with some genes more dominant or 'on the surface' in the family gene pool than other genes.

But with grades, I think it isn't as concrete as you mentioned. I've bred 2 of the same chao 20 times (with a resetting method) and have recieved more than 5 variations of grades. I personally think the grade ranking genes are more randomised since there's a plethora of combinations that can be inherited from each parent/grandparent/great-grandparent/etc in comparison to a chao's physical appearance.

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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Ultima » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:46 am

This is very interesting, it's as if the game already has 5 or 6 'specific results' the minute you feed the heart fruit to your chao...
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Master Chao » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:42 pm

@ Mayo: Yeah, I have to do more testing. This whole thing is all based off of a little observation I made while I was using the reset method to breed my "mint" chao. I was breeding him with a specific chao over and over (using the reset method) and kept getting a shiny normal chao with a squiggly mouth. I assumed this squiggly mouthed shiny normal chao was the exact same one over and over, because I never got another shiny normal chao with a different face, and I was getting other results that seemed similar to each other as well. I never checked their grades. If this squiggly mouthed shiny normal chao's grades weren't the same each time, then there may be reason to believe that instead of this "set results" theory I proposed that certain inheritable traits of chao may be linked to one another, in this case it was the color of the chao and the face it got, but that seems a bit iffy.

@ Ultima: Yes! That's exactly it. Well, not exactly. Because the reset method I use involves saving before you give the chao the fruit, so the game would have to decide before then. I'm not sure how this works though. Maybe before a chao goes into mating season the game proposes what genes it will pass on or thinks up specific babies for it to have depending on the other type of chao it breeds with. Either that, or the game decides these specific results for the chao that are reset each time they breed. I am starting to see how this would be practical though. Perhaps the programmers thought it would be better for the game to generate more than one possible outcome per breeding session and then pick a baby from that bunch than it would for the game to generate a single baby on the spot? I can see how it would be "better" but I can't really articulate why just yet.
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Mayo » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:42 am

Actually, would it be considered continuous breeding if I bought 4 heart fruits, placed them in the garden, saved, then bred a pair of chao twice, then resetted and repeated?
That's what I usually do, instead of using two heart fruits. So in effect would that create a new 'batch' of chao after the second time the chao breed?

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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Master Chao » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:24 pm

^ Hmm, that's an interesting question! I never considered combinations of continuous and reset methods.

If the theory holds, then it could be that you're getting two batches, but the first one will always be the same as the first one, and the second one will always be the same as the second one for as long as you keep reseting.

Unless of course it's proven that these batches have more to do with the timing in the game rather than the actual breeding, meaning that it could very well be the same batch both times.
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by krazykikikat » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:19 pm

I'm going to revive this thread almost a month later because I'm about to start research in this vein. I'm more interested in finding out all possibilities for grades when pure chao mate with other pure chao, when "impure" (chao who have a family tree) breed with other impure, or when pure mate with impure. I also want to explore the theory that improving a chao's grade through evolution will not significantly increase the odds that the child chao will inherit this improved grade rather than the pre-evolution grade.
Basically, it's going to be a big conglomerate experiment involving chao genetics with regards to grades. I came across this thread and figured I could add this to my experiment. I'm starting with four pure chao and breeding them in combinations ten or so times using a reset method, before quitting and waiting for the Black Market to restock, buying another fruit, and starting over with the same chao. I'll take down as much information as I can.
Look for a new thread by me publishing my early results. :herosurprise:
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Master Chao » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:57 pm

I actually appreciate you reviving this thread of mine. I still have to do my tests on this subject and interest from others makes for good reminders/encouragement. :)

I was mostly studying color and breed inheritance, but grades were included because they're a significant part of individual chao and my tests are looking to see the same individuals over and over.

Thank you again! :)
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by SontronChaosChao » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:10 am

This is a subject I am interested in. It does seem like your information is accurate, but there are some branches off this I would like to test or have someone test. I want to know if the personality of parents can affect grades and how much a chao with higher grades will affect the baby(will it have a higher chance of inheriting the highest grades) and so on. I am especially interested in the second one because I am planning on getting a all s chao and I want to know how hard it will be to get the higher grades through breeding.
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by krazykikikat » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:47 am

SontronChaosChao wrote:This is a subject I am interested in. It does seem like your information is accurate, but there are some branches off this I would like to test or have someone test. I want to know if the personality of parents can affect grades and how much a chao with higher grades will affect the baby(will it have a higher chance of inheriting the highest grades) and so on. I am especially interested in the second one because I am planning on getting a all s chao and I want to know how hard it will be to get the higher grades through breeding.
This is the same reason I originally got interested. From the research I've seen and my own experiences, I'm now fairly sure that it would be easier and perhaps less time-consuming to reincarnate chao to get better grades than to breed for them.

As to the original topic, so far I haven't found any evidence of there being set possible results, at least not for the buy fruit, save, breed, hatch, reset method. Using this method I bred the same two chao 20 times. I did not get any single chao (in terms of grades, face, personality, and favorite) more than once. I did, as you might imagine, get some grades repeated.
My next step will be to buy new heart fruit and start a new batch of reset-obtained chao, 20 of them, just like before.

Later I will post my results more thoroughly in a new thread.

I can also add color results to my research, though I consider color genetics to be pretty much figured out by now. My first two chao were normal, so no results on that front to show as yet.
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by DropkickGiggles » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:28 pm

If by some miracle you see this, Master Chao, I would really appreciate a link to your data/results. Or at the least a general explanation of your findings. Thanks!
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Mamkute » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:22 pm

Unfortunately, it appears that this thread was only alive some 5 years ago, and Master Chao has definitely not been on in probably a comparable amount of time.
Generally, it is probably best to avoid bumping topics that are so old, unless you have a very good reason to get the thread back active.
Although, I do appreciate seeing this thread, because I have never seen it before, and it seems pretty interesting, and may motivate me to do some testing over my break.
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Re: Chao Breeding and "Set Possible Results"

Post by Rinku » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:27 pm

Not ganna lie, I read this as if it were posted recently. The question intrigues me tho, do you really get the same 5 chao after a while? Or is there a limit to the rng possibilities? Someone on SA2PC could use fusions editor and test this but I seem to have many things to do atm, and idk if I want to breed all day haha. But potentially lower all the chao's hunger and max your garden with heart fruit for faster results on pc.. assuming its the same.
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