The DID/MPD/Tulpa/Plural Question

[Triert]

Not too long ago, there had been a chatbox debate as to the validity of non entity people on this forum.

A decision was made by Fox that we are to respect these people, be it as they may be real or not, we must respect them.

There is a matter of how real they are.

When I am told a person has someone else living inside of them, when that other person speaks to me, and that person has gone to a medical professional about this and they tell me back that there is indeed someone else there. They are real, just like you and me.

We have a reason not to believe such a thing to be true, anyone can lie about it.

just last night i discovered ive been lying to others, and myself as well. for skonia and any other imaginary friends i had were never actually there, i never saw him, it was all a lie i started for attention that got out of hand. the reason i say ive been lying to myself as well is because i got too far into it that i was pretending to be interacting with nothing and saying it was happening, without realizing that i lied every single time. all i was really doing was imagining what skonia would do in these situations. i have never saw him, i never hear him, nothing was ever there, not even a hallucination of him. the most i have is imagining what he says and does like any other person could do with any character. out of habit, i still had to understand and be told all of this by 'skonia', which was literally just me hearing the things i needed to say to myself in my own head. this was all a mysterious shock to me, as i was trying to understand how i could be so stupid to NOT notice i dont see anything??

only i could make such a stupid mess like this, considering this happened last night and i have not been able to mention it yet until now when i got on, i want to say now that im sorry ive unknowingly lied for about a year or 2 about nothing

other than that tho, nothing else is coming to mind

But as it stands, we have been told by Fox to respect someone who may or may not be there.

Fox, this is a suggestion to you and anyone else backing your choice.

Respect is EARNED

We are free to question, we are free to simply not believe the person without substantial reasoning. It is not something that you should have ever forced on us with a situation as posted there.

It's an insult to us, and an insult to medically proven patients who have a situation like this that we'd respect any troll that comes by someday claiming to have such a thing.

Now, does this mean I think we should be free to insult anyone claiming to have any of the above? No, I say this because I know this is the first accusation brought up to me when I've tried to argue this before. It does mean that if the person insists on having others believe them, anyone choosing to question and verify should not be reprimanded for doing so.

[Sable]

[Vaporwave]

Triert, I have lost all patience for you, this is way too far and has gotten to the point where I undoubtedly hate you.

Stop pinning all of this onto Uni. She made some mistakes sure, and I'm sure that she's gotten herself into her own confusing internal mess without you, Pink, and anyone else on this bandwagon chiming in. From this confusion between her initial lies and her own desire for Skonia to be a sentient individual, he ended up becoming sentient. A rough beginning for sure, but damn am I going to give him the respect that he deserves. If you're going to keep doubting plurality, at least give the plural-born individuals and the originally singleton individuals respect. Treating each individual as their own identity, instead of lumping them all into one. This is dehumanization, this is terrible. It looks like the reason why you're so bitter over plurality is because of Uni's experience. Get over it, this is ridiculous. Stop treating it as if claiming to have a tulpa/be plural is on the same grounds as claiming that you have a medical condition.

Honestly, I can forgive anyone that doubts plurality at first, I understand how strange it is, and that's a huge factor into why I've been silent for the longest time. This constant questioning, this demand for medical validity or a straight up diagnosis of MPD/DID, is awful. It's terrible, it's so discomforting. What you want is validation for identifying with the concept rather than understanding the concept itself. I can't stand how you and Pink tried to pull the ableist card on me for refusing to refer to as plurality as a disorder on the grounds that it's abnormal, as if that's all that's needed for it to be counted as such. As abnormal as it is, why should everything that's abnormal be labeled as a disorder? Why should plurality itself be counted as the same as MPD/DID? Why can't plurality just be called plurality? Why are you going to enforce a term for it? You lack empathy, and maybe if you actually spoke to plural-born individuals you would see that they are their own person. For the sake of giving you that opportunity, if you wish, I could arrange something between you and my other half.

If you're actually insulted that a moderator told you to play nice, you're weak. That's absolutely nothing compared to seeing Skonia get dehumanized. Knock it off Brian. This is just one of the several reasons that people on CI can't stand you anymore. As I've stated already, this was my last straw with you.

[Pumpkinium]

triert i woke up at about 7:30 in the morning cause i just got a cold and I can't sleep with it and now im sorta crying because of you

i feel like im being targeted or threatened in the most subtle way possible

i understand respect can be earned but i might go as far to say im begging for it, because skonia means a lot to me, and nothing we have said to you, no matter how much emotion and fact we put into it, will make you understand

i am a 15 year old girl, living in a filthy home that is very messy, with two lazy and terrible role model parents, my mother is an alcoholic and chain smoker and it has destroyed her mind to the point where she gets INCREDIBLY hysterical if she doesn't have her cigarettes, and my dad is very abusive about the fact that she probably has a mental illness that makes her act like this (i consider calling chain smoking/addiction + drinking problem a mental illness just because of the way my mother acts mentally at all times, correct me if that's wrong) and i am not a happy child, i live through this and my depression, anxiety, trust issues, and hinted mental instability that im not certain enough i can self diagnose myself with, cause it doesn't feel very apparent, but other people might believe i have it.

now do you think, on top of all this and more tiny details that feel like they are working to destroy my life, i want people like you denying me the freedom of feeling comfortable with having skonia? i consider skonia my child, as in, i have a lot of love and care for him, and i would sacrifice anything for him to live happy, because ive obviously haven't had the happiest start

i really understand the distrust you have because of the tulpa incident, but as stated before, that entire thing was never driven by the desire to laugh at anyone who believed me. it was because that is when I felt like skonia was something more, so I made him a tulpa, because i had no prior knowledge of any other things to describe his presence as, after slowly bettering myself over time i realized that lying about it is wrong and i felt terrible, coming to the realization that people are believing this

now this time i have something i can truthfully call myself and there is no need to lie anymore, i can and will let skonia live, i dont need a medical professional to validate something that i VERY MUCH KNOW IS THERE, just because YOU won't BELIEVE ME when i say he is there. so do me a favor, grow up a little and cut me some slack, cause i didnt want to have to wake up and cry because i feel like you're trying to target me for something ive NEVER EVER meant to cause harmfully, and i just want you to respect my decisions and let me and skonia coexist without your nearly TOXIC doubt about me

i dont care if you hate my ****** guts, but you should still respect the fact that we are both really real human beings, you don't need to respect us individually to do that

[Triert]

Why should plurality itself be counted as the same as MPD/DID?

What's so wrong with accepting something you have is unconventional to the point that you don't want to be put in the same room as people genuinely found to have the latter.

Like I knew from the first post, you two would completely misunderstand my position to paint it as an attack as you've already demonstrated. I think you two should be free to be, but unfortunately people are being told to act a certain other way contrary to the freedom and impunity you two were given. That's what I'm trying to get back for people.

If you cannot handle people questioning you over what you have, then don't talk to them. But suddenly one of them has a better amount of protection over the other, and they'll default to victims to make sure things suit them and get people to feel sorry for them at every turn using every single last anecdote they have. This place isn't going to turn into a complete echo chamber while I can still post damn it, and I'm through addressing you two since the matter at hand here is solely on the choice Fox Boy made.

[Pumpkinium]

so, to make sure i understand you, you are wondering why plurality SHOULD be counted the same as DID?

it shouldnt be, and to take directly from WebMD:

"Dissociative identity disorder (previously known as multiple personality disorder) is thought to be an effect of severe trauma during early childhood, usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse." there is also a lot more details to the disorder that plurality itself doesnt have

DID and MPD are basically the same thing according to this page, so lets just call it DID. DID is 100% always caused by trauma of some kind, or something that is negative. plurality on its own is never conceived by negative effects of any kind. it is merely the feeling of feeling you are not alone, but in a positive way, and you will discover yourself as feeling incredibly different sometimes, so different that you dont think its yourself anymore, and i experienced this before i created skonia, because he fit that role of the difference i was feeling, i gave the difference, the alternate half of me, a name, basically. we developed differently and separately from each other, all the while being very close to each other.

the way plurality can sometimes stem from DID is possibly (and im just theorizing here) when someone comes to agreement with their alternate personalities, as if maybe they gotten used to them being around or something and want to keep them around. it could also be possible for plurality to become DID, but i have 0 knowledge about that, and its highly unlikely, considering plurality has an intense feeling of trust most of the time

and finally, i know having DID isnt a bad thing in terms of the person themselves, it takes a negative effect on the mind of course, but the person isnt getting shamed at all for it (im saying this because pink liked to throw around the word ableism a lot), its just that plurality and DID individually can be noticeably different

i dunno if this answered your question or not, and my post mightve been kinda dumb cause i just woke up and all, but i just want you to understand

[Vaporwave]

Plurality itself isn't DID/MPD, that's why I'm not okay with it being referred to as such. That would imply that plurality itself is harmful, that it's something to be treated. What is the point of me going to a medical professional for something that does not negatively affect me? Are you really going to imply that it's harmful that I live with myself and another person within the same skull? I love him, and he has helped on this journey we call life. It's ridiculous to call my living situation with him a disorder.

Whether you intended your first post to be an attack or not, it was still offensive. It's offensive that you're still posting about plurality in general. You still don't empathize with plural individuals. You still don't know when to just quit, and let people live in a way that's not harming anyone.

[Triert]

The problem here is that you view the word disorder as something so awful to be associated with Mana.

A disorder is something out of the norm, an illness would imply it's harmful. Even breaking down the word disorder can tell you that much.

It's wrong that you two still can't see the bigger picture here is that you're forcing others to conform to you by allowing the silence of dissent and calling it "offensive".

But wait, you want to complain about getting offended when you'll be the first one here to call me weak? Get over yourselves!

But if having to accept that you might be medically considered within the same group as them as a bad thing, who are the real bigots?

[Pumpkinium]

i literally just said it isnt a bad thing, and im not denying being in the same group as people with DID, its just that the specifics between the two are different, and the way YOU are WORDING THINGS makes it seem like you are confused in the specific details as to why they arent exactly the same thing

i dont know what bigger picture there is to see, all im seeing is you not realizing that we arent even trying to make out DID to be SUCH A TERRIBLE THING OH GOD WHY

literally, to put it as basic as possible, all i am reading from you is "i dont know the difference between DID and plurality and somehow that makes people mad because im pairing plurality, which usually has positive effects, with a disorder that has negative effects. but ill blame them because they dont want to be near the people that have the disorder"

like literally, we know what DID is, we arent trying to push it away as if its SO TERRIBLE HOW COULD YOU SAY WE HAVE THAT????????? were just trying to explain to you that they arent the same, and are treated differently

[Vaporwave]

Why would I want plurality to be associated with a condition that involves receiving medical treatment for?

Why would I?

What am I enforcing? What I'm enforcing is that if people are going to call themselves plural, then by all means, they should be allowed to call themselves plural. You're acting as if I'm enforcing that individuals with MPD/DID should refer to themselves as plural when that's not the case at all. You're enforcing that plurality should be referred to as a disorder. Does that mean we should also convince the otherkin community to call otherkin itself a disorder because of how abnormal it is? No, either way is ridiculous. Let plurality be called plurality. Stop enforcing a name for it. Sorry that wanting ourselves and our plural-born mates to be treated separately from each other is "forcing others to conform to us". I'm so sorry that we want that respect.

You're trying to shove Uni and I into a box here, a box. Me being a bigot? I think shoving plural-people into the same room as MPD/DID would be awful as we're not the ones that are suffering here. That would trivialize MPD/DID suffers by saying that we're the same as them. The only reason why you're trying to shove us into that box is because of our one similarity is that we have multiple identities living within the same body, while everything else about the two groups is different. So excuse me if I don't approve of plurality being treated the same as MPD/DID, saying that we do have MPD/DID would make the disorder look a lot less serious than it actually is. Stop telling me that I have a disorder.

It's ridiculous that you're fighting so hard not to have to respect plural-born individuals.

[Triert]

just because YOU won't BELIEVE ME when i say he is there

This is where we ran into our first problem, how much we should believe each other.

We're made to believe you, and you might run into people who don't want to believe such a thing. Why do you two take precedence, because your feelings are worth more than others?

Now let me tell you, you two seem to think every person with a case of DID is harmful. Did you come to that assumption yourselves, search facts that only supported your assumptions, just to avoid any connection with the term.

I'm here to get our right to question again, which was taken away under the guise of "respect" that is automatically placed. If you want to see that as disrespect towards plural born individuals, then I believe we will get nowhere with one another. If plurals here need that sort of protection, you are not our equals.

I am not the only one here who will tell you what they think, if you find it easier to not allow others the same freedom you have to be plurals, that makes you something worse.

[Pumpkinium]

you believed me enough to tell me i was literally going to become skonia one day, but that was a little more specific, as you mentioned i'd get a gender change and everything else as well
you still said it though B)

i dont find myself higher than anyone with my feelings, and if someone didnt believe me then i guess i'd hide it from them until i feel maybe it was okay to tell them if weve bonded enough

but you, youre different, you already know about this, yet you refuse to stop pestering us passively with your topics about plurality, even if they arent directed to us, but im sure you expected us to show up anyways

i dont think people with DID are harmful, i think the disorder itself is harmful to the person, just as literally every other disorder, illness, etc is, its not rocket science

edit: dont edit ur post u butthead

im only denying you freedom of my fat dragon dong, accompanied by demon dong

[Triert]

I believed you Uni, and then I read that quote.

That trust isn't something you or anyone else can repair.

If you and skonia want to be our equals, you'll have to stand against the choice fox boy made that would force us into "respect" at hammer-point.

Understand that right now, what it'll take to end this is that simple action alone. People should be free to question anyone coming forward about this, and since you two are the prominent ones I think right now it'll be better for us all if you stop reading this as excuses to not respect anyone here. You can expect respect out of me when it's not being enforced by him, can I guarantee the same for others, no, but having it as it stands will do you two no good.

[Vaporwave]

Your bitterness for Uni is showing, forgive her already. Try to understand how her mistakes ended up creating Skonia in the first place. Try to empathize Triert.

Our feelings take precedence so we don't end up having our plural-mates be dehumanized? What is so wrong with us having that protection? How is that awful? We aren't even asking for anyone to be polite to us or to our plural-mates beyond at least treating us as separate identities. That's the absolute bare minimum of respect, and I'm so sorry that infringes on your own happiness.

Here's another source on MPD/DID, let's take a really important part out of this for the sake of discussion.

"Dissociation is a key feature of dissociative disorders. Dissociation is a coping mechanism that a person uses to disconnect from a stressful or traumatic situation or to separate traumatic memories from normal awareness."

Yeah, this is something that isn't a feature with plural individuals. Plurality itself may be a coping mechanism for a lot people out there, but dissociation sure isn't a feature in healthily plural individuals. When plurality itself is a coping mechanism, it functions by having another individual to speak to, an individual that understands you so well because they live inside you, it's so comforting that they understand everything there is to ever understand about you. Now then, if it's true that there are cases of MPD/DID in which the one diagnosed with it does not suffer over the condition itself, I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong in assuming that always brings an individual suffering. However though, I want plurality to be called plurality. I don't want to put myself in a position to self-diagnose myself with MPD/DID, or worse yet, face a doctor for something that I'm not in any pain over. There just wouldn't be a point. I also wouldn't want a doctor to prescribe treatments that are intended for me and my other half to become just one person. I don't want my other half to cease existing, I love him. He deserves to live, and I already feel guilty that he has to live in the same body as me, when he should be living in a body of his own.

Plural people do need to be protected so we could at least be treated as separate identities. This protection does not put us at any higher place over people that are singletons. Singletons are treated as themselves, while plural people are in danger of not having each identity treated separately. This protection would make us equal to you.

[Pumpkinium]

i just wanna make sure you know clearly what fox boy said

he said you should respect everyone on the websites choices, such as the fact i wish skonia to be respected as another being that is separate from myself

he was only asking for you to respect peoples life choices, not the people themselves, because i do agree with you on the "respect should be earned" thing, but that only applies to real respect to the actual person, not for their choices

for a simple example, lets say a user joins the site and openly states they are gay. what fox boy said means you respect the fact that they are gay, but you do not have to promptly respect the person completely altogether

if you already understood that, then no, i dont want to be your equal if the mere respect i request that makes me and skonia separate human beings needs to be EARNED

if you didnt understand that, well now you know

[Triert]

So plurality and being gay are life choices now?

[Pumpkinium]

choices, lifestyles, w/e you know what i mean, christ

[Triert]

Respecting lifestyles?

You mean like the ones where you get to ask questions?

Oh but wait, after all the disrespect I'm shown for that like your smart assed picture on top of all the other insults, I'm expected to respect you people for wanting my own lifestyle be misinterpreted as offensive.

Great to see how respect really works around here.

We'll have to respect lifestyles even if it means you might disagree with some of them. That's what we don't have right now.

[Pumpkinium]

thats not a lifestyle thats a personal preference

unless you literally have a life where your job is to do surveys, those have lots of questions

besides, youre trying to turn this on how youre being suppressed for your desire to question people to every corner of the earth and back

im not stopping you from asking questions, im answering them arent i? there just comes a point where questions could get too personal, but you havent reached that point yet, i assume you never will. questions can also be rather uncomfortable in certain situations, but im not uncomfortable yet, so ask away to your hearts content, i dont mind

i respect your decision to wish to be a survey person (even tho thats a nerd job c: )

[Triert]

Yeah, I already know you're not the one doing so. I said as much in the first post here.

Also, turning it into? Did you read the first post?

I'll make it simple, the ruling made my own lifestyle unacceptable because it conflicts with your lifestyle. But we don't have to let it conflict at all if we don't bring it up around each other.

But there's a mod that took a side, and now we have a problem.

[Pumpkinium]

i dont remember but if fox particularly said for you to not ask people questions, i dont think you should take it too seriously unless the person you are asking is getting rather uncomfortable with you about it

it isnt an official rule anyways, just go ahead and ask questions to people, but do it in moderation and politeness, while respecting their privacy and preferences and such

[Triert]

Then you can expect no further questions for me so long as we're agreed on that.

I'll see about getting this closed.

[Vaporwave]

Since you plan on getting this topic locked then I have no further comments either, but just so you know Triert, I still don't feel any different about you.

[Triert]

Neither do I about you four

[EvilPinkamina]

ITT: Nothing got accomplished. The end.