Character Discussion: Knuckles

General stuff to do with the blue blur! Talk about him, his friends, the TV show, whatever you like!
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Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by Ivogoji » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Trying to draw Dr. Eggman all the time means being slightly obsessed with his weird little glasses. This subsequently leads to being slightly obsessed with all eye-wear featured in the Sonic series. Hence Knuckles' various sunglasses captured my curiosity.
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You know, it's odd given how often Knuckles is shown wearing normal looking sunglasses that in Sonic Riders he would have goggles that wouldn't be out of place on a scuba diving outfit.
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Actually all the goggles and other headgear in the Riders games might be related to the fact that Knuckles' character designer was involved in their production. Maybe Takashi Yuda just has a thing for eye-wear?

It's no mystery as to why Knuckles would wear shades. It's well known that he has a low tolerance for sunlight, being a tunneling dude and all, so naturally he would prefer to have eye protection. What's more mysterious is how he got all of those different items (minus the SA2 upgrades anyway). Knuckles lives alone on an island suspended in the sky, separated from the rest of the world. Other than some signs of ancient super science, like the teleportation system, Angel Island doesn't seem to have any modern civilization. Where would Knuckles get sunglasses? Did he make them himself? Were they a gift from Eggman? (well, the good Doctor is definitely a fan of stylish eye-wear, so that's not out of the question)
For that matter, where would Knuckles get any of his clothes or stuff like the Tempest and the Land Breaker? It's tempting for me to ascribe ALL of Knuckles modern conveniences to Dr. Eggman or Tails- like I did in an earlier theory- but doing that is kind of a cheap explanation. Maybe Knuckles is secretly a talented engineer or something?
I also wonder why Knuckles' shades seem to have faded from memory, as he isn't seen wearing sunglasses or goggles recently other than in the Riders series. It might just be because Knuckles is out of focus these days compared to Sonic, Tails, and Eggman.
Other thoughts: Usually Knuckles eyes are violet, but sometimes they're blue. I wonder if, similar to Sonic's eyelids changing from the color of his muzzle to the color of his forehead, Knuckles eyelids also change colors...
If Jet, Storm, and Wave appeared in a non-Riders game, would their goggles vanish? The only appearance of the one of the Babylon Rogues outside of their native games is Jet's role as Sir Lamorak in Sonic and the Black Knight, who doesn't count obviously since he wears armor and everything.
Why did Dr. Eggman pull down his goggles that one time in SA2? Wouldn't wearing goggles over a pair of specs be uncomfortable? I thought the goggles were just a fashion statement, like the big white buttons on his pepper jacket.
Last edited by Ivogoji on Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by KeatonLabs » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:26 am

Would it be too outlandish to say knuckles may have aquired the glasses during Sonic 3, seeing as it would be safe to assume that was knuckles first time off the island. While with eggman, pehaps he grabbed some glasses while sonic was running around.

Though i never recall knuckles having blue eyes.

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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Ivogoji » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:54 am

His eyes look awfully blue in that SA-style book picture at the top, especially compared to the violet lenses of his sunglasses. There are a couple different instances of Knuckles having blue eyes, here's another picture:

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Knuckles didn't really go anywhere in S3&K, all the action in that game took place on Angel Island or inside the Death Egg. The shades might have been a gift from Eggman when they first met, or from Sonic and Tails. I read this one fanfic where Knuckles just has crates full of junk laying around the island left over from Eggman's occuption, stuff like pens and boxes of paper, all with Eggman's logo on it. I also read this other, unrelated fanfic that assumed there were literally zero modern devices on the Floating Island, and Knuckles had to painstakingly make his own parchment for writing, grind up his own ink, and use a hollowed out piece of wood for a pen. The contrast between how these two stories explained a simple aspect of Knuckles' daily life- writing on paper- always amused me, and it's interesting to think about which explanation might apply to the canonical Knuckles. Does Knuckles have a bunch of Eggman-produced kitchen utensils and office supplies and toilet paper emblemed with the Doctor's face? Or does he live like Survivorman and carefully craft every item he owns by hand from the natural resources on Angel Island?
Makes me wish there were more Knuckles-centric games.
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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:42 am

I think this is probably another example of the fans putting more thought into these things than the creators, but yeah, Knuckles having modern style Sneakers and gloves in his first appearance doesn't jibe well with his "last of an ancient race" back story.

As for color, I think it worth noting that color is subjective and that the exact same color can look completely different depending on what colors is placed next to. For example, Indigo looks quite purple compared to true blues, but very blue compared to Violet and the true purples, and I'm remember seeing an image on Wikipedia years ago that illustrated how the same spot of color can look orange against a black background but brown against a white background. Might be interesting to take a eye dropper tool to Knuckles iries in these images and see just how much the color actually differs(who knows, maybe Knuckles went through a canonical change of eye color like Sonic but no one realy noticed)
Just so you know, I am blind.

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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Ivogoji » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:10 pm

From the looks of things, the first time Knuckles was shown with an eye color was in Sonic Adventure, where his in-game model had violet eyes. However, official art and his sprites in Sonic Advance depict him with blue eyes. It's possible there was a deliberate change, but I also think it's likely that Knuckles was officially designed with violet eyes for SA, and that some material released around the time of the revamp simply mistook the color for blue or failed to get the hue right. The eyes in the style book picture could pass for the correct color, but put it next to a post-SA2 picture of Knuckles and it looks off. In the sprite however Knuckles has basically the same eye color as Tails. So there was definitely some error. You make a good point about color being subjective though.

This might be a similar situation to games and art being inconsistant about whether Knuckles' socks are green or yellow.
The sordid history of Knuckles' socks and how they influence his character could fill it's own thread....
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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by KeatonLabs » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:00 pm

Considering how depending on how you look at the SA art for knuckles it can look violet as well as blue. Its possible that they sometimes make them blue by complete accident in art, or maybe its simply the way you look at it, though that sprite is very obviously blue.

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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Ivogoji » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:29 am

Okay, now I must talk about Knuckles' socks. Can't help it D8

This is Knuckles official art from Sonic Triple Trouble:
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This is what Knuckles did in Sonic Triple Trouble:
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Look familiar? This is Knuckles at the start of Sonic 3:
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When Knuckles wears yellow socks, he turns into a chortling, Dasterdly-and-Muttly-esque villain who uses random booby traps to screw with Sonic and Tails.
But when he's wearing his usual green socks he's his usual serious, heroic self who actually fights with his fists.

And for years and years Ivo can only ask why this happens?? I've wondered about it since I was a kid!
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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Jeffery Mewtamer » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:32 am

^Now that you point it out, it does make one wonder why, after sucker punching Super Sonic at the beginning of Angel Island Zone, Knuckles never engages Sonic and Tails in direct combat until Hidden Palace. Makes me wonder if Eggman went a little deeper than simple deception in recruiting Knuckles for Sonic's Chapter of the S3K Saga.

WMG here, but maybe the Yellow Socks are the delivery method for some kind of mind control tech that needs direct contact with the victim and Eggman spun a yarn about them helping Knuckles keep pace with Sonic to convince the Echidna to put them on. Helped keep Knuckles from realizing inconsistencies between what the Doctor was telling him and what he observed of Sonic and Tails, but due to the circuitry being super delicate on account of needing to be concealed in ordinary fabric, Dggman had Knuckles avoid direct combat, and in fact, the Hidden Palace didn't end because Sonic beat Knuckles into submission, but because the mind control socks where rendered inoperable. As to why Eggman decided to disguise a mind control device as a pair of socks, I have no idea.

No idea how Knuckles got another pair of yellow socks for Triple Trouble.
Just so you know, I am blind.

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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Ivogoji » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:53 pm

The actually sounds like something Eggman would do XD

Giving Knuckles mind control socks isn't that farfetched when considering Eggman's other schemes. In Sonic Labyrinth his plan revolved around forcing Sonic to wear a pair of boots that reduced his running speed to a crawl. Since Knuckles' behavior in Sonic Triple Trouble is so aberrant, maybe Eggman tricked him into putting on another pair so Knuckles would unwittingly gather the Chaos Emeralds for him and frustrate Sonic&Tails' efforts to stop them. Note that in this game, Knuckles takes five of the Chaos Emeralds, while the sixth remains with the Doctor.

This line of reasoning brings us back to an earlier question: Is everything Knuckles owns created by Dr. Eggman?
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Re: Knuckles' shades

Post by Ivogoji » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:55 am

This is turning into a general Knuckles topic, but to change the subject, another interesting detail about Knuckles came to me while playing Sonic Adventure DX. While he's in the Chao Garden he says things like "Something about this place seems... familiar", "This place reminds me of home... I wonder why?", and "I think I've seen these little guys somewhere before, but where?"

There's been speculation that this actually gives insight into Knuckles' past. Specifically some have suggested that Knuckles was raised by Chao in the absence of biological parents. I can remember at least one fanfic that explained his childhood this way.

It does make a certain amount of sense. Consider: Echidnas come from eggs, maybe some Chao found Knuckles' orphaned egg and took care of it in a garden on Angel Island along with the rest of their kind. Knuckles knows how to glide and swim, Chao do these thing- he might have imitated them. Knuckles inexplicably has a mastery of martial arts despite years of total isolation, Chao can intuitively learn karate with no formal training- they might have taught him. Chao can also speak (sorta) so that might explain how Knuckles learned to talk.

Knuckles' predecessor Chaos is the guardian of the Chao, maybe Knuckles 'inherited' them as part of his job?
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by Ivogoji » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:40 pm

Bump.

This will be our official Knuckles discussion thread from now on.

Talk about the Master Emerald Holder here.
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by ShadriaFan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:26 pm

fun fact: Knuckles originally had a Jamaican accent (seen in manuals and books).
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by Goat » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:32 pm

If we can theorize that knuckles wrote on paper, could we also come to the conclusion that he wrote those raps in SA1 and SA2 himself?

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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by KeatonLabs » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:52 pm

Knuckles has a faster high speed in SA2 than sonic himself.

In contrast, sonic and knuckles have the same top speed in S3(&K) yet knuckles has a slower acceleration.

The latter makes sense to me, the former not so much. Do wish he was playable again though, just make sonic faster as a whole to keep him relevant.

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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by chaoadventures » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:26 am

^Knuckles doesn't control nearly as well as Sonic in SA2. I've tried playing as him in levels like Metal Harbor and Green Forest. His speed doesn't make sense though.

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Goat wrote:If we can theorize that knuckles wrote on paper, could we also come to the conclusion that he wrote those raps in SA1 and SA2 himself?
He also might have made them during the levels themselves, meaning doesn't even need paper.
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by KeatonLabs » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:14 pm

Yeah I agree he doesn't control as well, still just odd how he's faster in levels where he can't really make use of it (besides meteor herd i guess)

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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by Ivogoji » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:12 pm

Actually, I does make sense- Knuckles doesn't play well in Sonic's stages because he's too fast, so Sonic himself needs to be slower to smoothly navigate the loops and ramps.

But Knuckles' own stages are mostly walled-in, level surfaces. He doesn't have to worry about control as much since there's little danger of falling into a bottomless bit or being flung into a trap in his stages, but he still needs to dash quickly through tunnels and corridors to grab the Emeralds.
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by NiGHTSIsLife » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:55 am

ShadriaFan wrote:fun fact: Knuckles originally had a Jamaican accent (seen in manuals and books).
That would explain his dreadlocks.
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Re: Character Discussion: Knuckles

Post by Ivogoji » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:33 am

Happy birthday to the Echidna who knows de wai.
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